Ditto on ground clearance. Many people buy a Rebel, and either ride it for a while and get a larger bike, decide they don't like riding, or like it for what it is; a lightweight, reliable, easy to maintain motorcycle. If I knew a bike with say 5,000 miles had been abused and not maintained, and there was another one for the same price but was taken care of and had 30,000 miles, I'd get the bike with more mileage.

The Rebel swingarm is adequate, but just barely. Hardtailing one without significantly reinforcing the swingarm, especially if ridden in the woods, will eventually lead to the swingarm cracking.

FYI, a lot of Rebels are stored for extended periods with gas in the tank and carb. This can lead to rust in the tank and a gummed up carb that requires a lot of effort to get it clean.

 

The Rebel swingarm is adequate, but just barely. Hardtailing one without significantly reinforcing the swingarm, especially if ridden in the woods, will eventually lead to the swingarm cracking.
.

What are the swing arms made of ? Steel or Aluminum ?

If the shock was replaced by a steel tube column, it would appear to me
that about two inches in front of the axle on the bottom of the swing arm
would be the point of most tensile stress. Basically a short beam. Where do cracks usually appear ? If steel, seems like it would be easy to reinforce with a metal plate welded along the bottom of the swing-arm.

 

Action Hero Plastic Toys called Dirt Bikes with Stingers

I got lost with the terminology there...so no comment on that angle.

I have latched on to the
idea of a Rebel when I saw a Bobbed version on Craigslist used and a lot of other used Rebels for sale
with incredibly low mileage and prices way lower than new prices.

Considering the bike is out of production "lower than new prices" is relative. The bike debuted with a $1600 MSRP in 1985-87, re-debuted in 96 for the North American market at $3999, and ended in 2016 at $4200. There was a period from 1999 to a year or two before the recession hit that it carried a $3K MSRP (just above wholesale) at which point the dollar vs yen and collapsing economy drove the price up.

So there's the yardstick for "less than new". :thumb:

( maybe I should be suspicious of
so many available with low mileage )

Depends on the model year. the older it is, yeah...you're looking at replacing a lot of the consumables and if it hasn't been run in a while, a carb cleaning/rebuild too.

Anyway, most sources mention 320 pounds as the wet weight of the std. Rebel 250 and I am wondering
how much weight is able to be shed by the various modifications. REcently I have discovered Flat Track
racing on dirt ovals and it so happens that the 450cc Single cyl class minimum weight is 235 pounds and
many racers have to add little weights to make weigh-in before the race. IF they can get to 235 pounds with
450cc it seems like we ought to be able to beat 320 pounds by a lot with a 250cc motor.

... ...

So what is known about the weights of various variable components which I guess would be fenders,
seats, wheels etc. ie remove fenders and if the wheels are not aluminum, then replace with lighter
aluminum wheels etc. How else could we save weight ?

Realize the Rebel is a street bike and it has streetbike-heavy things like a steel cradle frame versus an aluminum perimeter frame. The engine is not a stressed member and the swingarm mounts to the frame. It has a pair of antiquated rear shocks instead of a more technologically sound monoshock. It has a DOT compliant exhaust system that contributes even more weight.

If by "the usual mods" you refer to the modern dismantle/sawzall/rattlecan bobberz-dood methodology, you're probably looking at 20-25 pounds of weight shedding assuming you retain some portion of the OEM head pipes while ditching the usual fenders/rear suspension/air box associated with those "mods". On the flip side you'll also kill what performance the bike had to begin with, so it'll end up lighter AND slower.

Now if you intend to go the engineering route and fabricate replacement parts with lighter materials to replace the heavier OEM goods, that's a whole 'nuther can of worms but certainly doesn't fall in the realm of "usual mods.

I realize the Rebel is in no way a "Woods Bike" but perhaps it could at least survive if I were to somehow
finagle a hi mount "scrambler" ( I saw a few in the photos on this website ) side exhaust system.
When you are dinking through the woods you dont need a lot of
suspension travel or have high clearance...... You just need it to "SURVIVE".

I would at least want to address the head pipes under the frame issue (as you mentioned) for such an endeavor. :thumb:

If you make it a hard tail, does removing
the rear shock and springs amount to a significant weight savings ?

As I mentioned above, you'll find weight savings with that. On the other hand for an off-road bike I can say from experience that you will quickly miss the rear suspension, more so if you've experienced extended laps around the sun.

BTW, saw a used Rebel 250 with (53) fifty-three thousand miles. That seems unbelievable to me.
AND so scary that I dont think I would take the bike at any price except free. Is this possible ?

Assuming it doesn't belch thick smoke or puke vital life fluids while running, I would want more miles than less.

 

I wouldn't worry about weight so much as ground clearance..
Rebel will hardly clear a standard height curb


Taken care of the Rebel is quite capable of 100K miles and much more..
of course low mileage is better and often found

suggest 2nd gen 96-2006 due to parts availability for at least a few years to come unlike 85-87 1st gen..

Best of Luck

 

It's thin steel. Read this: https://www.hondarebelforum.com/f12/swingarm-crack-beware-of-thy-rebel-40698.html

 

Welcome aboard.
As far as expendable weight goes, the Rebel is practically bobbed coming out of the crate. It has been engineered to be as light as possible without sacrificing performance or longevity. If you read through the various *mods* threads, you'll find that there isn't much that hasn't been tried. Altering the exhaust with shorty pipes, altering carbeuration with cone filters, boring the engine out all have consequences. Bobbing the fenders and even losing the front brake have been done. IMHO, that gets into serious safety considerations. About the only thing I can think of to lose weight would be a smaller solo saddle, and even that will cost you in comfort. I would recommend riding one stock for awhile before changing things. That way you'll have a performance baseline so you can compare the results of any tradeoffs you choose to make.

 

I paid $1200 for a brand new 1985. The Rebel would not make a good off road bike. I have owned 4 Rebels. I bought a brand new 2016 when I saw what they had done to the 2017 model. I have loved the little Rebel ever since it first came out, even though at 6' 240 I'm a bit too big for it. I tried riding one with the front fender removed, and the forks felt like wet noodles. It seriously NEEDS that fender to support the fork, or else some kind of a fork brace. And don't even think about trying to replace the rear shocks with struts. That is a recipe for disaster even on the road, let alone off road. The swing arm is made out of VERY thin mild steel. It was not designed for the shock loads caused by not having shocks and springs. The shock mounting location is it's weakest point, and if you run struts, it will crack and break along the bottom below the shock mounts. I am disabled, and can no longer safely get on and off of a dual sport bike. I considered buying a well used Rebel for light off road and dirt road riding. I wasn't worried so much about the ground clearance as I was the pounding it would take off road. I decided it was simply not strong enough to carry a 240 pound rider off road. I do understand your comment about modern dirt and dual sport bikes. My first dual sport bike was a 1979 Honda XL250S. It looked like a motorcycle, and actually had a seat. But there are inexpensive options for bikes that will hold up off road, and still be light enough to throw around, and not look like something out of a transformer movie. The Yamaha XT225 is probably the best dual sport out there. It feels like a big mountain bike. I have put over 30,000 miles on them. The Suzuki DR200 (next to last generation) is also a great lightweight dual sport that can actually be ridden like a dirt bike. If you need really cheap, check out the CSC TT250. They are Chinese, but they have been out for some time now, and seem to be holding up just fine.

 

The Rebel would not make a good off road bike.

Before I chopped my 85 I jumped it off road. Once. While it was a clean jump, up & over one hill and down the next as if there was an invisible connection between the two, it still broke the upper motor mount...and that doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of the many reasons why the bike isn't suitable for off road.

Aside from the mount failure, it was still a flawless jump nonetheless.

 

Lots of affordable rebels out there because it was a perfect 'starter bike', easy to man-handle, easy to repair, and quickly tuned over for a next-with-more-power-bike once the rider got some comfort with riding.