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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
leave the kick stand bs alone.. it's interconnected to the 2nd gen CDI which is different form the 1st gen CDI..
2nd gen junction box is quite different from 1st gen. in the connectors used..

You ask about wire colors but don't indicate which harness you are speaking about..
Both generation wire diagrams can be found in Electrical sub-forum
I would have to agree about the connectors used, and Im starting to wonder what all this 6 pin connector is responsible for, considering I only have like 2 wires left on the top side (non-harness / handlebar side)
 

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The Gen 2 kickstand does not fit the Gen 1 frame. The kickstand is an integral part of the Gen 1 foot Peg.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
The Gen 2 kickstand does not fit the Gen 1 frame. The kickstand is an integral part of the Gen 1 foot Peg.
with that being said, I made an appointment with the local shop near Pittsburgh, and basically they told me same stuff you guys did but thank God they gave me an appt for November 3rd.. I already uninstalled the 01 harness..

yes, I uninstalled 86 and then installed 01, and then uninstalled 01 and am now prepared to once again reinstall the 86 harness, probably tomorrow (because I have some free time)

can someone show me where the clutch ground connections are, related to the starter connections? even the first 2 connections you would check?

(after battery terminals, engine ground, frame ground, checking DC voltage at the switch, the solenoid ( while hitting button, with test light, battery connected, proper fuses, good battery, etc. )
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
I started realizing very quickly that gen 2 harnesses are NOT compatible with gen 1 frames...
there is no question. you have to change out the solenoid to starter motor wire, the battery box doesnt fit, the solenoid doesnt fit, the junction box wiring is completely different.. and I believe I was told that it may be compatible.. not by the vets but by others who were trying to help but were misguided..

but anyway, the point is, these gen 1 harnesses are rare, and owning a gen 1 rebel becomes a feat when it comes to wiring, sometimes.. from what I have collected.. but that is why I made this mechanic appointment, and I am truly feeling humbled.
 

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can someone show me where the clutch ground connections are, related to the starter connections? even the first 2 connections you would check?
??????????????
The clutch doesn't have a ground..
The clutch lever switch ground is Green wire harness circuit, running from main harness through junction box up to clutch handlebar switch, when lever pulled it connects to Green/Red providing ground to starter relay if start button pushed..
Than you have;
Neutral switch, provides starter relay an alternate ground via Light Green/Red circuit to engine when cam makes contact with end of switch..
Neutral switch #18 is buried behind left crankcase cover, engine flywheel, and separator plate

you can see light green/red neutral switch circuit disappearing behind separator plate (circled in red)
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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
1st gen Brown/White circuit is running light voltage source..
a branch runs into speedometer to power its internal lighting.
Brown/White also connects to Brown license/tail light circuit..

Have you unpluged the Green/Red ground side of starter solenoid and jumpered to frame ground while pressing start button? All the ground circuit would be bypassed diodes etc..
quick question: could I run a quick connect from the green red wire from solenoid, to the harness ground, where it is grounded to the frame?

could I ground the starter solenoid by itself, rather than at the harness ground?
is there anywhere closer to the solenoid?

this would be a temporary fix until I can get it to the mechanic.

what features would be bypassed if I put in a splice/quick connect running from starter solenoid ground wire directly to frame ground?

the only other issue is the rear running light.
brake light works fine with hand and rear brakes.
just no running filament in bulb, or is it 2 separate wires for running light vs brake?
 

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Run a jumper from female starter relay Green/Red bullet connector to battery negative terminal or near by bolt you can loosen to attach wire to..
if problem is located in relay ground circuit jumper will confirm quickly if starter cranks.

Clutch handle switch and Neutral safety switch would be bypassed jumping relay to negative.

3 wires to tail light.. Green=ground, Green/Yellow=brake, Brown=tail & license plate light
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Run a jumper from female starter relay Green/Red bullet connector to battery negative terminal or near by bolt you can loosen to attach wire to..
if problem is located in relay ground circuit jumper will confirm quickly if starter cranks.

Clutch handle switch and Neutral safety switch would be bypassed jumping relay to negative.

3 wires to tail light.. Green=ground, Green/Yellow=brake, Brown=tail & license plate light
my license plate light works.. and there is only 1 bulb for both functions.. so safe to say, I need an entire new brake light assembly with bulb? or can I replace just the bulb?

I know some bulbs and assemblies seem to be integrated with these older models.

and okay, that makes sense as far as what gets bypassed. I have a feeling it is one of those grounds..

(I have my eye on the one buried behind covers.. is this common?)
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
and also, I am not sure if this is an informed question or w dumb question.. but im going to ask anyway....


there is a green wire from solenoid itself. this attaches to the green/red (not just green) from either the fuse holder or the harness.. regardless, what im wondering is: can I tap it at any point? pre- or post- fuse box if following the (plain green in my case) ground wire from the solenoid, forward. (rear to front)
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
the reason I ask is because the circuit from solenoid to harness seems to be green at one point and then turn to green/red.. eithwr that or I am missing something. is the green wire from solenoid connecting to the light green/red to become a ground circuit
did I just find my problem?
seems as though there is a link between my tail light ground and that green/red wire..
check it out:

 

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Looking at the wiring diagram & what SoakedKarma said, grounding that wire would possibility yield the results that you're desiring. But, it'd bypass important safety guards like the clutch & neutral switches. An error on your part could result in a runaway Rebel.
Look at the colorized version, it's easier to understand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Looking at the wiring diagram & what SoakedKarma said, grounding that wire would possibility yield the results that you're desiring. But, it'd bypass important safety guards like the clutch & neutral switches. An error on your part could result in a runaway Rebel.
Look at the colorized version, it's easier to understand.
well, Im hoping this will diagnose it as being the connection at one of those switches.. longest it would be in place is 1-2 months. and its cold in PA already, so I am not riding much for rest of year, and would probably be doing this as a diagnostic test vs long term bypass. mechanic appt already in place for 11/03.
 

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The Green/Red branches off connecting to Light Green/Red
Green/Red connects to Green at the clutch lever switch
Light Green/Red grounds itself at the Neutral Safety switch in engine case.

The setup provides two ground paths for the starter relay

I don't know what you are trying to indicate with the hand drawn wire diagram.
Green/Red only connects to Green ground circuit at the clutch lever as indicated on Rebel wiring diagram
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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
Run a jumper from female starter relay Green/Red bullet connector to battery negative terminal or near by bolt you can loosen to attach wire to..
if problem is located in relay ground circuit jumper will confirm quickly if starter cranks.

Clutch handle switch and Neutral safety switch would be bypassed jumping relay to negative.

3 wires to tail light.. Green=ground, Green/Yellow=brake, Brown=tail & license plate light
I tried this and it started right up with the start button. no hesitation whatsoever.
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Looking at the wiring diagram & what SoakedKarma said, grounding that wire would possibility yield the results that you're desiring. But, it'd bypass important safety guards like the clutch & neutral switches. An error on your part could result in a runaway Rebel.
Look at the colorized version, it's easier to understand.
it seems I have it narrowed down to clutch switch ground and neutral ground from relay..

if anyone knows best method on how to diagnose one vs the other (clutch vs neutral ground) and if anyone knows where that neutral ground leads to, and how it connects?

I would appreciate it.

how much labor to remove that flywheel and separator plate?

anyone have any pics?


maybe I can fix this myself without going to the mechanic. I have gotten this far. I know if he has to drain oil and get into that left crank case cover and all that, its going to get expensive, and it doesnt seem like it would be too much work, if I can narrow it down.
 

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Look closely at wire diagram..
The problem must be in Green/Red circuit wire, Before it T's off to connect to diode..
I'd look for scuffed or broken wire under seat near the diode assembly connector..
you might also try and follow the Green/Red up from relay to the T splitting off for diode connection..
 
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