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2 rebels: one 250, a comboi of junked 1st gen & wrecked 2nd gen. and a 450 I havent touched yet
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
so, everything is going great, no worries at all, when something clogs my slow jet and accelerator pump. my guess is the recent Southeastern gas crisis facilitated the lack of filtering petrol for trash, because after a long dip in the Berryman's, it was still very difficult to clean out whatever the hell was clogging the tiny passages of the accelerator pump (jets were all but sparkling). Compressed air blown up from the pump expelled more and more little bits of waxy/plastic shreds of something - all of it was pinkish/purple, but I assume that was the Berryman's.

I get everything pristine and put back together, even replacing the flattened gasket around the bowl with a fresh one, and suddenly there's an issue. after bike has warmed up (5-10 mins of running time) the bike will start to slow and the engine will die, and giving it any throttle will make it die faster. Once it dies, you can wait 5-10 seconds, start the bike, and resume zipping down the road. For a time....because it will continue to randomly slow down and cut off. I have made it almost 15 miles without an incident, and sometimes, a quick ride to the corner store will see it cut off 3 times. but I can leave it running outside the store. pulling the choke doesnt do much, and can inhibit the restarting of the bike. I'm lost, and I'm very close to purchasing an aftermarket carb, which seems wrong, because while it is old, it was working PERFECTLY before that jet clogged. Lots of power for a Rebel - enough to lift the front tire a bit on hard acceleration. Really would hate to give that up for a couple weeks of tuning a new carb. Any ideas?
 

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maybe a fuel supply issue - sticky float ?

Berryman's won't condense and create shreds but might color something that was already in the carb

an inline filter will eliminate the possibility of issues arising from gas crisis if that's happening
 

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2004 Rebel 250
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an inline filter will eliminate the possibility of issues arising from gas crisis if that's happening
100%. Every bike should have a fuel filter IMO
 

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2 rebels: one 250, a comboi of junked 1st gen & wrecked 2nd gen. and a 450 I havent touched yet
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
oh it has a filter between tank and carb. thats the weird part. And maybe the float?....hmm. I've just been looking at the slide and the needle...its worth a shot. (I actually really like the float in this carb, bc the float needle/stopper fits without that little wispy piece of wire that always ends up allowing gas to flow into engine/out of the air filter lol. who thought one little bent wire would make you have to change your oil? Anyway, stay tuned, Im goin out there to pull off the carb now....
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
its bad when a single carb gets frustrating. the quad carb for my inline 4 doesnt require this much work 馃ぃ

SO - (no stuck mechanisms, no leaks) its getting too much air, I think. I was on my way home, less than 3 miles out, when i suddenly couldnt give it any throttle.... so I just let the clutch out, and it started to putt along @ 18mph. it pulled me up a hill at over 8% grade, before sputtering out on the last steeper hill going home, so I let it sit for 5 mins, and it roared to life with the slightest press of the starter, and I had it full throttle all the way home. wheeeee! so I'll try a different air filter next...? maybe a foam one? or are there any fresh perspectives out there?
 

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If you are using a gasoline/alcohol fuel blend (I do), it's possible your inline filter is being degraded by the alcohol and that's the plastic stuff you are seeing in the carb. When gasohol first came out, it took a while for resistant hose and filters to be developed.

If the bike dies again, and the carb is clean, try loosening the gas cap. If it starts immediately, it could be a tank venting issue.
 
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2 rebels: one 250, a comboi of junked 1st gen & wrecked 2nd gen. and a 450 I havent touched yet
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If you are using a gasoline/alcohol fuel blend (I do), it's possible your inline filter is being degraded by the alcohol and that's the plastic stuff you are seeing in the carb. When gasohol first came out, it took a while for resistant hose and filters to be developed.

If the bike dies again, and the carb is clean, try loosening the gas cap. If it starts immediately, it could be a tank venting issue.
luckily, my gas cap is always vented. its an old tank - just how it fits. I didn't even realize how much it vibrates when I ride until i push started it one day without my helmet on to ride it around the block.

that is interesting about the fuel filters. Actually, its more interesting about the fuel. Its a sin, I know, but I just gas up @ the pump most of the time. I ride everyday, and how far I travel each day varies. so I go against the no ethanol rule and gas up when I have to switch to reserve. I figure riding everyday should negate that problem anyway, and I live on a lake, which means if I gas up near home, I get ethanol free anyway, at the boat fueling station. but I will have to look into this gasohol mixture and see what its about.

what I've done is soaked the carb and all the original jets and such even longer, got in ALL of those little holes with a set of wire brushes I picked up (though I havent seen anything new fall out). I mean, they were working before the initial clog, and i'm actually about to go back out and try to start it. I'll be sure to post anything new here, even if I get fed up and take the damn carb to a shop. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
ok, so everything is back to orginal, albeit clean, and it REALLY wants to start, but it can't. I've narrowed it down to the air/fuel mixture screw. Its the only thing that I couldnt put back in its original configuration, because I had the bright idea of putting a different screw in to replace the one that had the head broken off it. Now I cannot tell how many turns is all the way in, and so cannot set it to the prescribed 2 1/4 - 2 1/2 turns out.

SO - before I go making things worse, I now have a hold where the air/fuel mixture screw went, and some soft brass surrounding it. I'm about to look online to see about rushing a replacement to me, but I think that will involve taking out the brass piece that the screw sits in, and if anyone has any experience pulling or drilling these out for replacement, please reply to this.
 

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Its a sin, I know, but I just gas up @ the pump most of the time. Most of the members here do too. So I go against the no ethanol rule and gas up when I have to switch to reserve. There is no such rule, and again, I use gas + ethanol, a.k.a. gasahol. but I will have to look into this gasohol mixture and see what its about. See previous sentence.

what I've done is soaked the carb and all the original jets and such even longer, got in ALL of those little holes with a set of wire brushes I picked up (though I havent seen anything new fall out). I mean, they were working before the initial clog, and i'm actually about to go back out and try to start it. I'll be sure to post anything new here, even if I get fed up and take the damn carb to a shop. :)

If you ran a wire brush through the end of the slow jet, there's your problem. There is a very delicate spiderweb matrix at the bottom of the jet which helps atomize the fuel as it passes through it. It's just a personal rule, and others will surely disagree, but I never put metal objects through the jets. If properly cleaned, (soaked in carb cleaner) there is no need, and there's too much risk for damaging a jet.
 
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Apologies for throwing a spanner in the works but I have a bit of alternative experience to offer. Don't laugh.
Mobylette mopeds have an external coil but an internal capacitor and if the capacitor starts to die it will let the bike start and run until it gets warm, then it will kills the engine, until it cools down and then you can restart and ride off, until it gets warm again. I am willing to be proved completely bonkers (UK English for mad / crazy) because Rebels may not have capacitors, being CDI ignition but electrics can fail if the get hot and grumpy, so your fuel problem might be electrical.... just a thought?

From Norfolk UK, not VA
2000 Rebel CMX250C
1974 Vespa Ciao
1974 Mobylette AV92
& other stuff
(Still can't sort out signature)
 

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1986 CMX450 12k miles
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I have a 2000 Chinese motorbike with CDI ignition that did the exact same thing as Sir Gnome. The symptoms sent me into the fuel system, and when nothing was amiss, I looked into the electricals, replacing items until a new CDI capacitor solved it.
 

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At first I was thinking that your gas tank vent was clogged and your bike was riding 5-10 min then starving for fuel because no air was getting in, causing a vacuum, and letting it sit 5-10 min allowed whatever air leaks into the tank to let it start flowing fuel again.

But your comment about the air/fuel mixture screw sent up a red flag. If you dipped the carb without removing the idle mix screw, spring, flat washer, and o-ring, that might be your problem. Carb cleaner eats rubber o-rings and you may have melted rubber bits in the idle passage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
At first I was thinking that your gas tank vent was clogged and your bike was riding 5-10 min then starving for fuel because no air was getting in, causing a vacuum, and letting it sit 5-10 min allowed whatever air leaks into the tank to let it start flowing fuel again.

But your comment about the air/fuel mixture screw sent up a red flag. If you dipped the carb without removing the idle mix screw, spring, flat washer, and o-ring, that might be your problem. Carb cleaner eats rubber o-rings and you may have melted rubber bits in the idle passage.
yeah, technically I didn't have a choice. Didnt even know I had a choice, either. but a dremel and some patience pulled me thru. I carefully grinded out the welch plug (that was one issue), and removed what was left of the mixture screw. yes, I had to pry the rubber washer out - it was adhered to the underside of the throat. replaced that, [email protected]$%$ked around with what actually counted as "seated", and ended up rejetting before I finally got it started. current (new) jets are 32/128, if I'm not mistaken, new needle set on 2nd rung. its def running leaner. I don't know if I like it. I think I had a bit more power with the 40/132 setup. oh, and I shimmed the slide with a couple of rubber spacers. 1/4-1/3in, tops.
regardless, its starting up first try, and there's no hesitation anywhere along the band. I'll post how the top end adjustment goes - I havent tried to get max speed yet. it was 75 (according to DMD2 app that I use for a speedometer).

oh, and Kryton I def know about the tank vacuum problem. i bought mine like that lol. I was told to drill the cap, but I just swapped it for another that didnt seal so damned tight. the issue is apparently commonplace with the Ali Baba aftermarket 3.8g tanks. the OEM 2.3 (2.6?)g tanks have the lines built in. (by the way, if you have the 3.8g tank, know that if it isnt leaking now, it will. use the caswell sealer and you'll be golden)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Apologies for throwing a spanner in the works but I have a bit of alternative experience to offer. Don't laugh.
Mobylette mopeds have an external coil but an internal capacitor and if the capacitor starts to die it will let the bike start and run until it gets warm, then it will kills the engine, until it cools down and then you can restart and ride off, until it gets warm again. I am willing to be proved completely bonkers (UK English for mad / crazy) because Rebels may not have capacitors, being CDI ignition but electrics can fail if the get hot and grumpy, so your fuel problem might be electrical.... just a thought?

From Norfolk UK, not VA
2000 Rebel CMX250C
1974 Vespa Ciao
1974 Mobylette AV92
& other stuff
(Still can't sort out signature)
I thought about that, and was told that might be the issue. I pulled the plugs to clean them, and got a nice fat spark on each. I am thankful that wasnt the issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
if it was attached to the carb, i didnt. just canned air. if I could remove it, I did. plus canned air. I will remember that about the slow jet tho. Dude, that was a trial. but Im now confident enough that I dissembled the carb to my Rebel 450, (which has old gas deposits AND vinegar traces AND cobwebs inside, and the outside is coated with black latex paint) its a lot more parts, and one 48 hr soak probably won't be enough, but the idea isnt nearly as frustrating now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
If you are using a gasoline/alcohol fuel blend (I do), it's possible your inline filter is being degraded by the alcohol and that's the plastic stuff you are seeing in the carb. When gasohol first came out, it took a while for resistant hose and filters to be developed.

If the bike dies again, and the carb is clean, try loosening the gas cap. If it starts immediately, it could be a tank venting issue.
if it was attached to the carb, i didnt. just canned air. if I could remove it, I did. plus canned air. I will remember that about the slow jet tho. Dude, that was a trial. but Im now confident enough that I dissembled the carb to my Rebel 450, (which has old gas deposits AND vinegar traces AND cobwebs inside, and the outside is coated with black latex paint) its a lot more parts, and one 48 hr soak probably won't be enough, but the idea isnt nearly as frustrating now.

good to know about the ethanol thing. the mechanic I once took my bike to said it was bad to have the ethanol sit in the carbs. lucky him - he lives closer to the boat fueling station than I do. but he apparently tells every customer. of course, this is the same guy that rebuilt my carb twice (he said) before realizing the cause of my engine bogging was due to obstruction of the air box intake under my seat (I didn't know either, but hey, I was a new rider, just bought the bike and tied a handkerchief over the springer seat)
 

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I don't think canned air is powerful enough to blow out solids (rust, undisolved gum, etc.) in the carb. Compressed air should do the job. If you don't have access to compressed air, getting one of these and going to a facility that has compressed air available to their customers is an option. Tru-Flate Blowgun Clip On - Walmart.com - Walmart.com

As you have learned, getting a carb truly clean takes effort.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I don't think canned air is powerful enough to blow out solids (rust, undisolved gum, etc.) in the carb. Compressed air should do the job. If you don't have access to compressed air, getting one of these and going to a facility that has compressed air available to their customers is an option. Tru-Flate Blowgun Clip On - Walmart.com - Walmart.com

As you have learned, getting a carb truly clean takes effort.
funny, I was just thinking the same thing trying to get all this latex paint off the 450 carb....computer duster works in cycles. blow air for so long, and the can freezes. my friend says he has an air tank he'll give me. I'll have to fill it every so often, but hey - free.
 

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funny, I was just thinking the same thing trying to get all this latex paint off the 450 carb....
It never ceases to amaze me what stupid things some POs will do to a bike. :eek: :eek: :eek:
 
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