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I'm not the original poster (op?) But i think that was directed at me, no I didn't change the oil weight, I changed the oil thinking maybe the idiot shop that dod the last work on it put the wrong weight in. I put what ever the manual says for a 2006 I think it was 10w40 was the same as before never changed to 10w30 or vise versa, not sure right now. But after a couple of days ago when i realized it's ok with the engine off in 99.9% sure it's the clutch doing something. But I'm far from smart. I'll go ride it again right now with my work shoes on, report back exactly what it's doing, and how many miles it was at.
 

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Ok so me riding with my work boots on, keeping in mind my ankle, cold shifts are silky smooth and take very light pressure. Nuetral is just a bump and it's in nuetral. At 1.25 miles neutral was getting harder to find and the shifter were taking a little more effort. At 2.25 miles the shifts are taking considerable effort but il ts still shifting, neutral is impossible to find and the transmission sounds like my harley, every shift is accompanied by a nice loud clunk. Turned around at 5 miles got home at about 8.5 was still able to shift so I'm thinking when it seemed almost to bind up was more a combo of my ankle and shoes. But it remains that the shifts get harder and clunkier and thats worrying me if baby mama is on the bike


When I say my ankle I'm referring to a previous motorcycle accident that left me with a plate and about 75% loss of movement. With 2 tendons that were severed and tied off. I'm used to riding the harley and trail 90 with heel toe shifters now due to this.
 

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Sorry, yeah I meant that question for you. We had earlier been discussing trying a different weight of oil. By the way, knowing EXACTLY what brand, type, and weight of oil you are using is potentially very important to diagnosing your problem. Certain oils are known to cause issues in the Rebel transmission.


....When I say my ankle I'm referring to a previous motorcycle accident that left me with a plate and about 75% loss of movement. With 2 tendons that were severed and tied off. I'm used to riding the harley and trail 90 with heel toe shifters now due to this.
Ouch! And those CT90s are awesome!

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It's got Castro actevo like pictured but in 10-40. I have that 10-30 for the ct 90


I dont know what it had in it before I put the Castrol in it, it was changed by century cycles in san pedro, ca but after seeing some of their previous work on this bike like the tank cleaning that now had the tank dented from the inside out. Or the trail 90 with the carb held on by 3/16 flat head screws and nuts so I wouldnt be shocked if they put 2 stroke oil in it. But it now has Castrol


Bad thing about riding a 72 ct90 is the shift pattern when I get on another bike. Its 4 down, kinda hard to get used to 1 down 4 up and that's the bike I ride the most. 88 raging cc. But 120 mpg
 

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I’ll let others chime in on that oil - - I don’t know anything about it. My owners manual calls for 10W-30, with no alternative weights, and that’s what I use.

Yeah, that shift pattern on the CT90 must be tricky to adapt to. I want to pick one up some day, but plan to get a a few years newer than your ‘72, when they reversed the shift pattern. That way it will be easier to switch off between bikes.

At least you don’t have to use the clutch!

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Well we are back to the oil 😬😬😬😬😬😬 I looked at owners manuals online right now they say 10w30 I swear mine says 10w40 but wont be able to look till tomorrow and the bike has 10w40 in it. I really hope it's this simple. I'll change the oil again tomorrow for 10w30 and see what happens, I was gunna ride the 90 to work I guess itll be the rebel now
 

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Whatever you do, don't use automotive 10W-30! That stuff contains friction modifiers that will ruin the clutch. As far as the difference in weight, it shouldn't be a problem. See the oil chart in post number 8 here: https://www.hondarebelforum.com/f28/oil-change-type-of-oil-41242.html

I've run 15W-40 in my Rebels for over 50,000 miles with no problems.
 

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Whatever you do, don't use automotive 10W-30! That stuff contains friction modifiers that will ruin the clutch. As far as the difference in weight, it shouldn't be a problem. See the oil chart in post number 8 here: https://www.hondarebelforum.com/f28/oil-change-type-of-oil-41242.html

I've run 15W-40 in my Rebels for over 50,000 miles with no problems.

I've come across that oil weight chart in many threads on this forum, but never with any attribution. It is certainly a graphic that shows different oil weights that can be used in different ambient temps, but I have searched and never found any evidence that this came from a Honda Rebel manual. If anyone has something definitive that shows this came from a Rebel owners manual, please let us all know and provide a link. It would be good to know the model year of the Rebel manual, too.

As I mentioned in post #45, I am doubtful that the oil weight is his issue since this problem seems to have been on-going for quite some time. But his shifting gets more difficult as the engine warms up, so the idea was to completely rule out oil weight by switching to the spec oil. (At one point he indicated he was going to do this.) Honda has a 10W-30 motorcycle oil that is fully compatible.

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I've come across that oil weight chart in many threads on this forum, but never with any attribution.

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Oil weights from Honda 1986 service manuals for the CMX250C and CMX450C models, w/August 1987 revision pages that were added..
I see the Honda 2006 service manual doesn't show various weights

In the summer I'll run 20/50
 

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Oil weights from Honda 1986 service manuals for the CMX250C and CMX450C models, w/August 1987 revision pages that were added..
I see the Honda 2006 service manual doesn't show various weights

In the summer I'll run 20/50
That is good stuff, thanks! Are those Honda oem service manuals, or aftermarket?

I am on my phone now and don’t have my reading glasses, but it looks like that 2006 service manual specs 10-40? And it also shows a lower oil capacity than my owners manual! Edit: Nope, same capacity - - I was reading the liters quantity.

Fyi, Despite what my manual says, I am planning to use 10-40 next summer.
 

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@VAReb Honda oem shop manuals printed in Japan,, 250 date of issue Dec 1986
450 date of issue October 1986 which came without any Revision pages..

further reading of 2006 Honda oem shop manual I find this graphic on page 3-9
 

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Discussion Starter #72
The following is copied from the Owner's Manual for a 2004 Honda Rebel. The chart at the end would not copy, however, it shows 10W30 and 10W40 for temperatures ranging from -10 degrees Celsius (14 degrees F) to above 45 degrees Celsius (113 degrees F). So I use synthetic 10W40 motorcycle oil. A lot of folks that ride XJ's have used Rotella 15W40 for years.

Engine Oil
Oil Recommendation
API
classification
viscosity
(weight)
JASO T 903
standard
74
Servicing Your Honda
SG or higher
except oils
labeled as energy
conserving on the
circular API
service label
SAE 10W-30
MA
suggested oil
Pro Honda GN4 4-stroke oil (USA
& Canada), or Honda 4-stroke oil
(Canada only), or an equivalent
motorcycle oil.
Suggested oils are equal in performance
to SJ oils that are not labeled as energy
conserving on the circular API service
label.


Your motorcycle does not need oil
additives. Use the recommended oil.
Do not use oils with graphite or
molybdenum additives. They may
adversely affect clutch operation.
Do not use API SH or higher oils
displaying a circular API ''energy
conserving'' service label on the
container. They may affect lubrication
and clutch performance.
NOT RECOMMENDED
Do not use non-detergent, vegetable, or
castor based racing oils.

Other viscosities shown in the following
chart may be used when the average
temperature in your riding area is within
the indicated range.
CHART DID NOT PRINT--SEE OPENING COMMENTS
 

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So 10w30 seems to have solved it for me, I stuck 10w30 in it, the castrol in the picture I posted earlier and it shifts great and the top end seems quieter to me not as much valvetrain noise. Just put 10 miles on it only had trouble finding neutral sitting still which I do on every bike, but move it an inch and it pops right into neutral. And I just dumped oil as clear as what I put back in 😭😭.

As far as the oil weight, manualslib.com has this for a 2007, sorry they are just screen shots, one place it says 10w30 next page says 10w30 and 10w40 on the same scale . But 10w30 made mine shift better
 

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Discussion Starter #75
Let's just face it, the Rebel is temperamental about shifting and neutral. It can be a lot of things but I think it is the result of expansion in the clutch, transmission, etc as they heat up, which causes the clutch to "drag" while the engine is running. In shifting up I have found that preloading the shifter lightly makes it shift easily. Also, if I end up stopped and in first or second gear, bipping the throttle while preloading the shfiter often works.
 

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So 10w30 seems to have solved it for me, I stuck 10w30 in it, the castrol in the picture I posted earlier and it shifts great and the top end seems quieter to me not as much valvetrain noise. Just put 10 miles on it only had trouble finding neutral sitting still which I do on every bike, but move it an inch and it pops right into neutral....
Very interesting to hear! This was my theory from the beginning. It reasoned that oil viscosity was implicated based on the symptoms increasing as the engine warmed up.

When I switch to 10-40 in the late-spring next year, I am going to pay very close attention to shifting. As mentioned, using 10-30 I have very smooth/easy shifts and no difficulty finding neutral. It is not temperamental at all with 10-30 oil.

I may also order the Honda OEM service manual for my 2016. I am curious to see if it contains the same oil info as that 2006 service manual, or whether Honda updated it and decided 10-30 was a better match to the Rebel clutch??


.
 

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So 10w30 seems to have solved it for me, I stuck 10w30 in it, the castrol in the picture I posted earlier and it shifts great and the top end seems quieter to me not as much valvetrain noise. Just put 10 miles on it only had trouble finding neutral sitting still which I do on every bike, but move it an inch and it pops right into neutral....
Very interesting to hear! This was my theory from the beginning. It reasoned that oil viscosity was implicated based on the symptoms increasing as the engine warmed up.

When I switch to 10-40 in the late-spring next year, I am going to pay very close attention to shifting. As mentioned, using 10-30 I have very smooth/easy shifts and no difficulty finding neutral. It is not temperamental at all with 10-30 oil.

I may also order the Honda OEM service manual for my 2016. I am curious to see if it contains the same oil info as that 2006 service manual, or whether Honda updated it and decided 10-30 was a better match to the Rebel clutch??


.

I was originally thinking oil weight just from automotive manual transmissions when they switched from 90w to 75w90 to atf if you put 90w in a 75w90 trans you couldnt shift it for a few blocks then a few miles it would be good, and the multi weight oils act like 1 weight below a certain temp then the other over, so made sense that 10w was good but then holding 40w viscosity at temp was to thick. But I was using the speced oil.


Oh yea I ride in Van's so I feel a lot of the heat off the engine, the cover right next to the left foot peg is drastically cooler with 10w30 than it was with 10w40 I could probably touch it for less than a second with 10w40 but had my ankle resting on it while riding with 10w30 and it was just warm. I dont know what's under that cover trans gears?
 

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....
Oh yea I ride in Van's so I feel a lot of the heat off the engine, the cover right next to the left foot peg is drastically cooler with 10w30 than it was with 10w40 I could probably touch it for less than a second with 10w40 but had my ankle resting on it while riding with 10w30 and it was just warm. I dont know what's under that cover trans gears?
That’s interesting about the heat difference. I have not noticed high heat in that location, but I wear ankle-high boots while riding.

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I couldnt give you an accurate temperature guesstimate cause, like I said earlier that's my bad ankle and most of that foot is numb but it got hot enough I could feel it "inside" my ankle very quickly then talking about all of this I reached down and touched it holy hell it was hot. On the 10w30 I rode for several miles at the end with my ankle resting on it, I didnt even get the warm feeling inside like a car heater does.


I have no clue what if anything that means and when I used the bnb inferred thermometer on the bike I didnt think to take a temp there


I'm thinking some along the lines of the bike only has 1300 miles so the gears are tight still and the 10w40 was just to thick creating excessive heat in the gears? I've seen this on car differentials but I would think 1300 miles the gears would all be broken in, unless the lady that bought it new didnt use higher gears🏼. Otherwise I'm at a loss.
 

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Discussion Starter #80
One of the primary, if not the primary, purpose of oil is to cool the engine. I assume that the thinner oil would flow faster resulting in better cooling. But there has to be a trade off, since the oil also cushions the contacts points in an engine with a protective film. Too thick = less flow = less cooling but more protective film? too thin = more flow = more cooling but less protective film? I think as long as we stay in the oil guidelines stipulated by the engineers that built these bikes we should be ok. I've always run 10W40 synthetic in all my bikes--air cooled and water cooled--with no apparent problems. Remember, some of the newer cars call for 0W30 or 5W30 oil, I assume because of the closer tolerances the new engines have.
 
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