Honda Rebel Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

Super Moderator
Joined
3,570 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Love them / hate them / indifferent?

I made this post sticky so that all the new members can find it easier.

Let's let them know what we already know about crash bars / crush bars.
 

Super Moderator
Joined
29,163 Posts
Beware the MC Enterprises crash bar for the 250. Due to its configuration, the bar will contact the pavement well before the pegs scrape or the bike gets anywhere close to maximum lean angle. Other bars, including the one sold by Jacks Rebel warehouse, won't do this. Having the bar catch on the pavement could cause a crash.
 

Premium Member
Joined
11,903 Posts
For the most part, the bars made for metric cruisers are little more than copper tubing when it comes to durability. The domestic OEMs seem to have more durable manufacturing in this regard, even from the aftermarket supporters...but the metric market might was well be offering bear traps because that's how they work: they fold over and pin your foot to the peg.

Put into perspective, let's say you weigh 200 pounds. Let's say your bike is 400 pounds. In a normal lay-down the bike will slide farther and faster (i.e. it has more momentum) than the rider will, thus "clearing a path" for the sliding rider. Worst case scenario, the bike impacts a solid/immovable object while the rider continues shedding energy, and if the rider impacts the same he/she is carrying less energy by the time that happens.

Same scenario but the rider's foot is trapped between the folded bar and peg. Now the combined mass is 600 pounds, with 50% more energy over the bike alone or 300% over the rider alone. Now when the bike/rider impacts that same object, it is carrying more energy when that happens and the damage is more severe...both to bike AND rider.
 

Attachments

  • Like
Reactions: VAReb

Premium Member
Joined
11,903 Posts
Part 2 of the problem: the "more durable" construction. Back in the 1970's these bars were made of much thicker material, thicker than the modern "more durable" bars in production today (which, in all fairness, are more durable than the aforementioned bear traps above).

However, this should not be construed as "better" in any way, shape, or form. Why? Source the Hurt Report which was a study from 1976-1981, specifically #39:

"Crash bars are not an effective injury countermeasure; the reduction of injury to the ankle-foot is balanced by increase of injury to the thigh-upper leg, knee, and lower leg."

So let's say your domestic bar is of similar construction, all it is doing is "relocating the injury" assuming the rider remains with the bike during the slide. Assuming "middle of the road construction", meaning somewhere between 70's grade durability and modern metric copper tubing, well...roll the dice and take your chances here for one or the other scenarios to play out.
 

Premium Member
Joined
11,903 Posts
In the end, I simply see no advantage and many disadvantages for equipping a bike as such. My personal experience with a bar:

1995 1500A Vulcan w/Fire & Steel (Kawasaki's in-house line of accessories) mini-guard manufactured in the mid-90's. AKA somewhere in between copper tubing and 70's durability. Front brake locked up at approximately 35-40mph causing a capsize to the right. The mini-guard folded over and pinned my foot to the peg. Myself and bike slid in unison into the back of a car.

Other facts taken into consideration:

> The bike weighed 600 pounds.

> I weighed 200 pounds.

> Together we had 800 pounds worth of mass factored into the momentum of the resulting slide and impact...25% more energy on behalf of the bike by itself and four times the energy on behalf of the rider if separate from the bike.

> My injuries were a dislocated shoulder and hip along with a sprained wrist and ankle. Road rash was minimal due to gear.

> The folding engine guard/crash bar (whatever nomenclature anyone wishes to tag it with) punctured the radiator (along with an expensive chrome grill covering the radiator) which was otherwise safely sandwiched between a pair of frame tubes and never would have been damaged otherwise as the forks were intact (i.e. no front wheel collapsing into it).

Plausible theories:

> I'm convinced that if I was not on the bike when the guard folded over, the lower case cover would have been rashed anyways. The bar was folded over, as was the peg...not much more clearance from there to "protect" the case cover.

> Separate, the bike would have cleared a path for me (i.e. me with 1/3 the momentum of the bike and 1/4 the momentum of bike and rider together) and my injuries would have been less severe. Carrying less momentum, the bike would have enjoyed better odds at not impacting into the car. Odds of me impacting the car would have been much more slim.


Facts and theories together: in the end it caused more harm --- both to myself and the machine --- than what would have transpired without it.
 

Attachments

Registered
Joined
147 Posts
I believe if they were proven effective to reduce rider injury, like a crash helmet does, they would be mandatory by law.
 

Registered
Joined
58 Posts
Now a lot of folks seem to use crash bars for highway pegs.



I've always wanted highway pegs and kind of figured a crash bar was the way to go. I've never really looked into anything else because I haven't spent much time on a cruiser.



What can be an alternative? Ideas on the safest highway pegs for cruising?
 

Super Moderator
Joined
29,163 Posts
I've got pegs mounted on an engine guard. Allows me to extend my legs a little, put not as much as I'd like on the superslab.
 

Premium Member
Joined
11,903 Posts
Actual highway bars offer the feet forward stance without a crash bar/engine guard.



Personally, I'd rather have the control capabilities of forward pegs complete with the corresponding control bits attached to them --- AKA "forward controls".

 
  • Like
Reactions: 01-7700

Registered
Joined
674 Posts
Actual highway bars offer the feet forward stance without a crash bar/engine guard.



Personally, I'd rather have the control capabilities of forward pegs complete with the corresponding control bits attached to them --- AKA "forward controls".

Could you provide a link to find those particular forward controls, please?
Thank you
 

Premium Member
Joined
11,903 Posts
Could you provide a link to find those particular forward controls, please?
Those are mounted on a 1400 Intruder, tracing the pic I found it on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/TARAZON-Aluminum-Controls-VS1400GLP-1987-2004/dp/B06XSFKW3K

AME in Germany makes a similar set-up for the 96+ 250 for around $500 + overseas S/H, after that Blue Collar Bobbers offers a kit that relocates the stock pegs. Mapam has been off and on lately with their offerings, more off than on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bokobob

Super Moderator
Joined
3,570 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I've thinking that a straight pipe to provide highways legs would be nice - to incorporate it with forward controls is a bonus. Further bonus is that it would protect the bike in low speed falls but also protect the rider by not trapping the legs in higher speed crashes. I did something like like on my Ruckus 50cc but never did worry about high speed problems.
 

Registered
Joined
289 Posts
I've read quite a bit of evidence 'crash bars' are actually a bad thing in high speed crashes, from the hurt report:


Crash bars are not an effective injury countermeasure; the reduction of injury to the ankle-foot is balanced by an increase of injury to the thigh-upper leg, knee, and lower leg.
So basically in crashes 'crash bars' tend to turn more minor injuries into major ones. Not only that, in high speed incidents they can cause quite severe engine damage that would otherwise just be a minor part replacement or cosmetic damage to a cover:


I have seen several wrecks where the cylinder has been broken off. . . . These bikes all had crash bars. Crash bars cause cylinders to get snapped off and riders to sustain a greater injury. - https://w6rec.com/crash-bars-are-very-dangerous/
I think they are misnamed, they are only effective as 'drop bars'. In a zero speed drop they prevent damage and allow picking up the bike and rolling on without needing a crow bar to bend the clutch lever back out, for example (ahem, I may have done this) and embarrassing and potentially expensive cosmetic damage. They can also be useful for comfort, i.e. highway pegs. However, in a high speed crash you're almost certainly better off without them.
 

Registered
Joined
1,101 Posts
I would avoid crash bars. They bend when you fall and will likely add to your injury

Engine guards are not crash bars. I see many pics of engine guards improperly installed, with pegs on them. smh.

Here is a pic of both installed on my 450. Had to fab some brackets to get the crash bars more forward, due to my forwards.

I fell with this set up, very low speed low-side left and broke my foot pretty good. Bars caught my foot up and actually caused my bike to slide quite far away from me also.

I personally will never (ever) use crash bars again, not gonna save you in a crash and have shown to actually increase rider injury. That's just facts. I do like the look though.

I think engine guards installed properly guard the engine well!
 

Attachments

1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top