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Thread: 2009 Rebel 250 idles fine but dies with a little throttle Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
07-19-2017 08:56 PM
shuste73 With only 800 miles... it was a fair price. I've seen other bikes around here with 2000 miles asking $3300. I listed for $2900 to get the folks looking under $3000, hoped to get $2800, but would have gone down to $2500. Got a lot of lowballers offering $2000.

MIL changed the deal because she just wanted to be done with it, and registration was due in July. She said just pay her $1500, which was nice because it allowed me to re-register in my name and give her the US Army Veteran plates, which probably was keeping buyers away (she was keeping the plates, needed extra DMV forms). I promised her $1500 minimum if the 25% didn't work out to giving her $1500. That was the number in her head and was happy to get it off her property and out of her mind.

I put in $100 in parts and supplies (like the Berryman's), spent $140 on plates/registration/tax when I bought it from her, so I made about $850 profit. I spent about 10-12 hours on it, so it's a good hourly rate. I enjoy the work, too, so that helps.
07-19-2017 07:38 PM
flitecontrol Congrats! Around here, that would be a very high price. So was it worth the 25% commission?
07-19-2017 07:15 PM
shuste73 quick update - rode the bike a few miles per week just to keep it running right, and it never had an issue again. Sold it last week to a guy that wanted a light bike to stick on the back of his RV so he could ride every now and then while traveling (he's retired).

$2600. Not bad, I feel like it was a good price for both of us.

Thanks again to this forum.
06-26-2017 07:51 AM
01-7700
Quote:
Originally Posted by kryton View Post
Alcohol doesn't actually "eat" carburetors, if it did then cleaning would be useless. C2H5-OH adds a little oxygen to the combustion to make the exhaust a little cleaner, less carbon monoxide and more carbon dioxide, which is a good thing.
The harm comes from its increased affinity for atmospheric moisture if left to sit for long periods. If you run through a tank in a reasonable amount of time, the ethanol actually keeps the dissolved moisture in suspension. Left to sit however, and it reaches saturation and rusts the tank and allows the other additives for EPA emissions and/or detergent additives to precipitate out and clog the jets and passages.
Some people forget that before ethanol was added to gas for us we used to add ethanol to our tanks to avoid frozen gas lines - at least up here in the north. The amazing thing (to me at least) is that those 'dry gas' additives are still being stocked on the shelves so they must be selling.
06-26-2017 07:31 AM
kryton Alcohol doesn't actually "eat" carburetors, if it did then cleaning would be useless. C2H5-OH adds a little oxygen to the combustion to make the exhaust a little cleaner, less carbon monoxide and more carbon dioxide, which is a good thing.
The harm comes from its increased affinity for atmospheric moisture if left to sit for long periods. If you run through a tank in a reasonable amount of time, the ethanol actually keeps the dissolved moisture in suspension. Left to sit however, and it reaches saturation and rusts the tank and allows the other additives for EPA emissions and/or detergent additives to precipitate out and clog the jets and passages.
06-24-2017 12:43 AM
shuste73 >Did you ever soak the entire carb body and jets, either the first or second time around, or just the accelerator pump cover and float bowl? If not, why?
I soaked the jets the second time around. The carb body didn't seem to be the problem, and it wouldn't fit in the Berryman's at the same time as the other parts, anyway. If I had to do yet another soak, why not put it back together first? So I did.

>Did you replace the pilot air mixture screw after the first time or the second time? I know you discounted this variable as a possibility, but it can cause the same symptoms, and if you only did it after the 2nd time, then it or its port is still possibly the culprit.
The pilot screw was done after the second soak, upon reassembly. The idle was actually fine, just needed to be tweaked from about 1480 to 1400rpm. It was an idiot check, but I suspected my FIL farted around with the larger black knob when he was trying to get it to run.

After the first disassemble/reassemble when it had the issue where it wanted to stall on a little throttle, I had been warming up the bike so that I could check the idle to see if that was the problem, that's when it puked oil from the crankshaft seal. I didn't get to mess with the idle until I got THAT fixed, which was after the second soak.

>I'm not trying to second guess your procedure since you obviously got your bike running fine. I'm only trying to point out to others that may read this thread now or in the future that the accelerator pump is not the only thing that can cause those symptoms.
Hey, it's cool, man, a lot of people have this problem and it's good to make sure they've got the best info. I did what made sense for my particular situation with my particular problems - start easy, fix what you have to, go from there.
06-23-2017 12:02 PM
76Paw Thanks for clarifying, shuste73.

So now I have a couple of questions. Did you ever soak the entire carb body and jets, either the first or second time around, or just the accelerator pump cover and float bowl? If not, why?

Did you replace the pilot air mixture screw after the first time or the second time? I know you discounted this variable as a possibility, but it can cause the same symptoms, and if you only did it after the 2nd time, then it or its port is still possibly the culprit.

Did you adjust the idle speed and pilot mixture screw after the 1st time, 2nd time, or both times. If it was only the 2nd time, then you can not discount this as the possible fix either because it also causes the same symptoms.

You are probably right that a port in the accelerator pump cover or float bowl was plugged, and not allowing the accelerator pump to work properly, but I'm not sure that you can completely discard the other possibilities unless they are completely separated by the 1st and 2nd time cleanings.

I'm not trying to second guess your procedure since you obviously got your bike running fine. I'm only trying to point out to others that may read this thread now or in the future that the accelerator pump is not the only thing that can cause those symptoms. Also I am recommending to everyone that if you go to the trouble to take the carb off the bike, and tear it apart, then be sure to clean and inspect everything thoroughly and in great detail, to try to avoid having to do it twice, or in some cases 3, 4, or even as many as 5 times which has been reported on here before solving the problem.
06-22-2017 10:54 PM
Spike4230
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRebel View Post
Don't know if it was cleaned but I assumed it was as it was a very professional shop, clean, organized, and popular. I'll call
them tomorrow and double check.

So far I have looked at a lot of posts and no one has really nailed down what it is. It is VERY frustrating to have such
a good ride and not be able to trust going out very far in confidence. Today on a 140 round trip (cities are far away from each other up here)
it hauled butt on the highways in the morning when it was cooler. By 11 I was driving in 100+ weather and a couple of times
I stopped for a few mins and it started fine but just a little throttle would start the choking sequence. My milage was 72MPG
and it never stalled when running.

Thanks


The ethanol in the gasoline up here eats Honda carburetors alive. So much so that in the fire department I volunteer at, we use Startron fuel treatment. We were having all kinds of issues with our Honda engines. I have had my own issues with ethanol gas and either run the ethanol free gas or run Startron or a similar product through them. All makes/models of my small engines, boat and old truck and car.

If you do take a carburetor apart and see a cruddy buildup on it, use carb cleaner and a rag to scrub after letting it soak for a bit. Be sure to Not soak any plastic or rubber parts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
06-22-2017 05:54 PM
shuste73 It is NOT a fair statement, I don't think. Here's the way it went down...

First, the bike sat for 5 years. In-laws decided to sell it since it wasn't being ridden.

But it wouldn't start.

I had them bring me the carb ONLY. I took it apart and soaked a couple parts in SeaFoam for 30 min. Found the float valve STUCK by verdigris, which is why it wouldn't start (no gas!). So I put in a new float valve and gasket because I had the carb kit with those parts. The accelerator pump was very stiff/stuck. The rubber perimeter was stuck to the metal. I pried it off, took it all apart, it looked okay, put it back together.

Gave it back to them (my in-laws).

They reinstalled the carb and it started up, but now exhibited a NEW problem - little bit of throttle and it tries to die, but runs if you gas it. They didn't want to mess with it, said they were going to donate to charity and take it as a write-off. I said no, give it to me, I'll fix it and sell it for you for X% of the sale price and you'll come out way ahead.

They rode it 15 miles to my place and it didn't stall, but it almost would when starting off.

I took the carb apart again and soaked it, went deeper this time. It wasn't my bike, so it made perfect sense to figure out what the immediate "doesn't start" problem was, and that was CLEARLY the stuck float valve. With this new problem, a full carb disassembly and soak was in order, which is what I then did, and that has fixed the problem.


FACT: The soak was AFTER I did the other stuff, so that other stuff wasn't the fix.
FACT: That was the ONLY problem that persisted at that point.
FACT: The idle/pilot valve was fine, I just replaced it because you had to buy the assembly to get the cap.
FACT: The "stalls on slight throttle" problem was definitively fixed by the long soak of the accelerator pump cap and the float bowl. There was only this effort at the point where this problem exhibited, and that was the soak. The soak HAD to have fixed it.

Which one was the key, the cap or the bowl? Not sure, but since the purpose of the accelerator pump is to give it a little gas on a tiny bit of throttle, my conclusion is based on Occam's Razor - the simplest answer is the most likely answer - it was the accelerator pump cap.
06-22-2017 02:15 PM
76Paw Just remember DON'T put any rubber or plastic parts in the ChemDip.

So to summarize, shuste73, your problem could have been solved by cleaning the carb, or getting the accelerator pump freed up, or replacing the pilot air mixture screw, or replacing the float valve, or adjusting the idle and pilot air mixture correctly, but you think that it was mostly from cleaning the accelerator pump cover.

Is that a fair statement, or was there anything else that you did all at the same time that may have fixed the problem, or did you do some of this and find that it did not help, and then do some more?

DesertRebel, the accelerator pump may be causing your problem. However, I think you should still go down that list I gave you in your other thread, in the order that I listed them, because any of those things could cause the same symptoms, and I listed them in the order of easiest to do first, followed by progressively more involved, or in depth checks. Once you get to the clean the carb step, everything else is done while you have the carb apart.

It makes no sense to take the carb apart without cleaning everything, and it makes no sense to clean it without inspecting everything, and it makes no sense put it back together without replacing everything that appears damaged or faulty, and it makes no sense to put it back together without making sure everything is functioning correctly, and it makes no sense not to adjust the idle and pilot air mixture after you put it back together and back on the bike.
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