450 bogging and dying when given gas - Page 3 - Honda Rebel Forum
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post #21 of 50 Old 02-27-2019, 11:19 AM
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Appears your cleaner is similar to mine. You probably already know that Chem Dip will destroy rubber and plastics. But it does a really good job of cleaning metal parts. If you use Chem Dip in it, don't use the heater option if it has one. The sonification process produces heat on its own.

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post #22 of 50 Old 03-02-2019, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
 
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Appears your cleaner is similar to mine. You probably already know that Chem Dip will destroy rubber and plastics. But it does a really good job of cleaning metal parts. If you use Chem Dip in it, don't use the heater option if it has one. The sonification process produces heat on its own.
alright, so I took apart the carbs and cleaned them. defiantly running better now. upon adjusting the air/fuel screw to spec and fiddling with idle screw i got her to rev. shes mean. however, im still having some issues. first is when you rev it, its almost as if the idle drops for a second, then begins to climb. not sure if its running lean now or what, i have the air/fuel screw at 2 1/4 out on both carbs (keep in mind the baffleless exhaust). next is the choke, you cant turn it off without the bike dying (even when warm). I have gotten the choke to about 20% by easing back on it while turning the idle screw but eventually it dies and then to get it started again i have to turn back the idle screw. even at that point with the choke at 20% you couldnt rev it, it would just get sloppy. another thing with the the idle screw; theres a point in the adjustment where about 1/4 of a turn has you from idling high and able to be revved, to backfiring, and spitting gas from the intake of carbs (and eventually dying). and its almost as if after this point in either direction you can turn it and turn it and almost nothing happens. is this normal?
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post #23 of 50 Old 03-02-2019, 03:06 PM
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The idle dropping momentarily when revved and then increasing could be an accelerator pump issue, or something else. Throttle response is frequently sluggish with the fuel enricher on. The fact that it ran better after cleaning is an indication it wasn't completely clean. What's the temperature where the bike is stored? If choke is still required to keep the engine running even after it warms completely, it's possible the carb(s) still need more cleaning. Are you able to ride the bike as it is? That's one of the best ways to warm the engine.

Once the carbs have been synchronized and are performing as they should, it shouldn't be necessary to readjust the idle screw.

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post #24 of 50 Old 03-02-2019, 04:36 PM
 
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if warm engine won't idle with enricher off, idle circuit is plugged/restricted somewhere..
it's the only part of carb (other than float valve) that is functioning at idle..

upper part of idle jet is cross drilled, acts as an emulsifier tube.. if cross drilled holes (image) not clean fuel won't be vaporized properly..

Don't know about the 450 carbs, on the 250 I'd check the Air Bleed jet passageway that originates under the Main Jet rubber diaphragm, ends at idle jet emulsifier tube combining fuel and air in relation to turning fuel screw.. Air Bleed jet passageway shouldn't become dirty unless bike run without air filter..

or compression is lacking.. assuming valve lash has been checked too.

without a steady (enricher off) idle there is little hope to sync the two carbs and achieve smooth off idle acceleration..
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File Type: jpg IdleJet.jpg (54.3 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg IdleCircuit.jpg (105.1 KB, 1 views)

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post #25 of 50 Old 03-02-2019, 05:48 PM
 
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all of the above...and air leaks are also a source of erratic idle/throttle...from the vacuum diaphragm leaking air to the rubber boots...to missing o-rings and worn gaskets. most likely after 3-5 years of junk drying in the small orifices of the carb they are cemented closed. are you using an air compressor to blow through each orifice?

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post #26 of 50 Old 03-12-2019, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
 
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if warm engine won't idle with enricher off, idle circuit is plugged/restricted somewhere..
it's the only part of carb (other than float valve) that is functioning at idle..

upper part of idle jet is cross drilled, acts as an emulsifier tube.. if cross drilled holes (image) not clean fuel won't be vaporized properly..

Don't know about the 450 carbs, on the 250 I'd check the Air Bleed jet passageway that originates under the Main Jet rubber diaphragm, ends at idle jet emulsifier tube combining fuel and air in relation to turning fuel screw.. Air Bleed jet passageway shouldn't become dirty unless bike run without air filter..

or compression is lacking.. assuming valve lash has been checked too.

without a steady (enricher off) idle there is little hope to sync the two carbs and achieve smooth off idle acceleration..
I made sure the jets were clean (chemdipped both of them), but what orifice should I clean better? the hole the pictured jet goes into? Ive cleaned these things pretty thoroughly and taken them apart more times than i could count.
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post #27 of 50 Old 03-12-2019, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
 
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all of the above...and air leaks are also a source of erratic idle/throttle...from the vacuum diaphragm leaking air to the rubber boots...to missing o-rings and worn gaskets. most likely after 3-5 years of junk drying in the small orifices of the carb they are cemented closed. are you using an air compressor to blow through each orifice?
I took out and inspected and (if need be) replaced all the o-rings, they were mostly fine. I had installed a jacks rebel carb kit on both which came with a few of the o-rings and gasket. Ive also tried spraying carb cleaner at the intake boots and no change in the idle so I dont believe there is an air leak. also im using a compressor with an assortment of tips (one is rubber tipped)
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post #28 of 50 Old 03-12-2019, 03:02 PM
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The concensus is your carbs aren't completely clean, which I know is frustrating given the amount of time you have spent on them. Suggest you run both carbs through your ultrasonic cleaner one more time and use Chem Dip as the solution. If you decide to do this, read this first: https://www.hondarebelforum.com/f39/...ner-29665.html

If you can't bring yourself to put Chem Dip in your cleaner (hasn't hurt mine), use Real Lemon juice or white vinegar as the dipping solution. With either one of these, leave it in the cleaner for 1 1/2 hours minimum, and use the heater if your cleaner has one.

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post #29 of 50 Old 03-13-2019, 06:50 AM
 
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I feel for you as well, and they are right, if it won't idle without the enricher, it is not getting enough fuel:


1. Idle mix screw is not set correctly
2. Idle mix passages are obstructed (tank rust grit, old gas lacquer and crystalized additives, bits of o-ring that accidentally went into a cleaning solution, etc)
3. Air pathway leaks between the throttle plate and the piston (intake manifold gaskets, valve seals, head gasket, piston rings... ).

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post #30 of 50 Old 03-16-2019, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by flitecontrol View Post
The concensus is your carbs aren't completely clean, which I know is frustrating given the amount of time you have spent on them. Suggest you run both carbs through your ultrasonic cleaner one more time and use Chem Dip as the solution. If you decide to do this, read this first: https://www.hondarebelforum.com/f39/...ner-29665.html

If you can't bring yourself to put Chem Dip in your cleaner (hasn't hurt mine), use Real Lemon juice or white vinegar as the dipping solution. With either one of these, leave it in the cleaner for 1 1/2 hours minimum, and use the heater if your cleaner has one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kryton View Post
I feel for you as well, and they are right, if it won't idle without the enricher, it is not getting enough fuel:


1. Idle mix screw is not set correctly
2. Idle mix passages are obstructed (tank rust grit, old gas lacquer and crystalized additives, bits of o-ring that accidentally went into a cleaning solution, etc)
3. Air pathway leaks between the throttle plate and the piston (intake manifold gaskets, valve seals, head gasket, piston rings... ).
thanks for your advise... the only issue i had with the chem dip in the cleaner was i dont have enough of the stuff lol. I bought what i think is 1 gal of chemdip (big can with dipping tray) but it barely filled my cleaner 1/3 and at almost $30 a pop im struggling to bring myself to $60 or even $90 on chemdip alone lol. is there anything you guys have had success diluting it with or should i just suck it up and fork over the dough.
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