Dead Rebel - Page 3 - Honda Rebel Forum
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post #21 of 32 Old 03-06-2017, 10:41 AM
 
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IF you want to try jumpering directly to the starter, I'd suggest attaching the positive jumper to the starter terminal first, and then to the battery terminal so that you don't burn the starter terminal with the arc. Also there is less chance of accidentally touching the hot battery terminal to the ground on the bike resulting in a nasty short circuit.

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post #22 of 32 Old 03-06-2017, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckster View Post
IF you want to try jumpering directly to the starter, I'd suggest attaching the positive jumper to the starter terminal first, and then to the battery terminal so that you don't burn the starter terminal with the arc. Also there is less chance of accidentally touching the hot battery terminal to the ground on the bike resulting in a nasty short circuit.
yes, good advice - edited the previous post to reflect this much better approach

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post #23 of 32 Old 03-06-2017, 01:20 PM
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The only drawback to that is that you should never cause a spark near a battery as it may explode. Believe me this is a real concern. I was lucky not to get any acid burns when one blew up on me, but needed a new battery, and new underwear.

Better to connect positive jumper to positive car battery post and starter terminal first. Then connect negative jumper to negative car battery post. Then touch the other end of the negative jumper to any frame ground part of the bike, basically any metal on the bike that is away from the battery or gasoline to avoid any spark concerns. Alternatively, you can connect the negative jumper to the negative battery terminal on the bike, and then touch the other end to the car frame ground, clear of the battery or any gasoline fumes.

The idea is to make the last connection away from any dangerous battery acid or gasoline fumes to avoid a fire or explosion from the spark that usually occurs at the moment of connection. I ignored this advice for 40 years until a tractor battery blew up in my face.

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post #24 of 32 Old 03-06-2017, 01:40 PM
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The only drawback to that is that you should never cause a spark near a battery as it may explode. Believe me this is a real concern. I was lucky not to get any acid burns when one blew up on me, but needed a new battery, and new underwear.

Better to connect positive jumper to positive car battery post and starter terminal first. Then connect negative jumper to negative car battery post. Then touch the other end of the negative jumper to any frame ground part of the bike, basically any metal on the bike that is away from the battery or gasoline to avoid any spark concerns. Alternatively, you can connect the negative jumper to the negative battery terminal on the bike, and then touch the other end to the car frame ground, clear of the battery or any gasoline fumes.

The idea is to make the last connection away from any dangerous battery acid or gasoline fumes to avoid a fire or explosion from the spark that usually occurs at the moment of connection. I ignored this advice for 40 years until a tractor battery blew up in my face.
more great points to consider - safety first

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post #25 of 32 Old 03-07-2017, 03:04 AM
 
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It sounds like more than one problem. Yes, the ignition is separate from the battery, but the engine must be turning over at a decent speed for the ignition system to work, and that has to be done by the starter. So if the battery is dead, it won't start. But, you said (if I understood correctly) that you charged up the battery, and the lights and everything worked, except the starter. That would seem to indicate the battery was not dead, yet the starter would not turn the engine over. Now, on a Rebel, when you turn the switch to on, the lights come on. But when you push the starter button, the headlight shuts off until you release the button. That is so all available battery power can be used for the starter.

So when you push the starter button, does the headlight turn off? If not, you have a problem in the switch. I suggest jumping the starter relay, what some people call a solenoid, with a heavy piece of cable. The ignition switch should be off, the battery should be fully charged, and the lights should work (with the switch on, turn off the switch once you have confirmed the lights work) If the starter turns over when you jump the relay, then the starter and cable from the starter to the relay are good.

There are 2 smaller wires that operate the relay (a relay is an electrically operated switch. It is necessary because there is no way the small pushbutton starter switch can handle the current required by the starter) Using a multimeter, see if you are getting 12V across the 2 smaller wires when you push the starter switch with the ignition switch on. If you do, then you have a bad relay. If you don't, then the problem lies somewhere between the starter button and relay. Check the fuse first. If that is good, then you will have to backtrack to find the open circuit.

While the Rebel has a very simple electrical system, there are a lot of things that can be wrong, and a lot of places current has to go through before it reaches the starter. First of all, you have to get current from the ignition switch to the starter button. Then it has to go through the kill switch, clutch nanny switch, and sidestand nanny switch. There can be an open circuit in any one of these places. But I would make sure the light goes out when you push the starter button with the ignition switch on first. If it doesn't, that indicates a problem with the starter button.

Also, your new battery seems to have gone dead awfully fast. You may also have a problem with the charging system. Do not confuse the charging system with the ignition system, they are completely separate. But if you are riding with the lights on, and the charging system is not working properly, the lights will quickly drain the battery.

A must have tool for checking electrical circuits is a multimeter. It does not have to be an expensive one. You can get them from $10 to the skys the limit. The $10 one will work fine. I prefer the analog type, as the digital type can give you erroneous readings. You can get a small reading when it should show zero, just from bleedover voltage. That can make you think you have something when you really don't.

I have several multimeters, but this is the one I grab most of the time Power Gear 500-Volt Analog Multimeter-50952 - The Home Depot
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post #26 of 32 Old 03-07-2017, 03:28 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by 01-7700 View Post
forget the spark plugs for now - you have an electrical problem to sort out

(edited for safety) x2

1. move bike near car
2. don't start car !
3. slip rubber boot back that protects the terminal on the rebel starter motor (see pic below)
4. attach pos jumper cable to pos battery terminal on both car and rebel starter terminal
5. attach neg jumper cable to neg battery terminal on car
6. turn key on bike to on position
6a. make sure rebel is in neutral !!!
7. touch free end neg jumper cable to metal on the rebel away from battery and gas
7a. this bypasses the starter solenoid
8. report back what happens

I'll give this a try Thursday or Friday and report back what happens. Would it be safe to negative jumper to say the handle bar or the front tire fork?
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post #27 of 32 Old 03-07-2017, 03:36 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
It sounds like more than one problem. Yes, the ignition is separate from the battery, but the engine must be turning over at a decent speed for the ignition system to work, and that has to be done by the starter. So if the battery is dead, it won't start. But, you said (if I understood correctly) that you charged up the battery, and the lights and everything worked, except the starter. That would seem to indicate the battery was not dead, yet the starter would not turn the engine over. Now, on a Rebel, when you turn the switch to on, the lights come on. But when you push the starter button, the headlight shuts off until you release the button. That is so all available battery power can be used for the starter.

So when you push the starter button, does the headlight turn off? If not, you have a problem in the switch. I suggest jumping the starter relay, what some people call a solenoid, with a heavy piece of cable. The ignition switch should be off, the battery should be fully charged, and the lights should work (with the switch on, turn off the switch once you have confirmed the lights work) If the starter turns over when you jump the relay, then the starter and cable from the starter to the relay are good.

There are 2 smaller wires that operate the relay (a relay is an electrically operated switch. It is necessary because there is no way the small pushbutton starter switch can handle the current required by the starter) Using a multimeter, see if you are getting 12V across the 2 smaller wires when you push the starter switch with the ignition switch on. If you do, then you have a bad relay. If you don't, then the problem lies somewhere between the starter button and relay. Check the fuse first. If that is good, then you will have to backtrack to find the open circuit.

While the Rebel has a very simple electrical system, there are a lot of things that can be wrong, and a lot of places current has to go through before it reaches the starter. First of all, you have to get current from the ignition switch to the starter button. Then it has to go through the kill switch, clutch nanny switch, and sidestand nanny switch. There can be an open circuit in any one of these places. But I would make sure the light goes out when you push the starter button with the ignition switch on first. If it doesn't, that indicates a problem with the starter button.

Also, your new battery seems to have gone dead awfully fast. You may also have a problem with the charging system. Do not confuse the charging system with the ignition system, they are completely separate. But if you are riding with the lights on, and the charging system is not working properly, the lights will quickly drain the battery.

A must have tool for checking electrical circuits is a multimeter. It does not have to be an expensive one. You can get them from $10 to the skys the limit. The $10 one will work fine. I prefer the analog type, as the digital type can give you erroneous readings. You can get a small reading when it should show zero, just from bleedover voltage. That can make you think you have something when you really don't.

I have several multimeters, but this is the one I grab most of the time Power Gear 500-Volt Analog Multimeter-50952 - The Home Depot
Yeah so the battery was not dead but had a very low charge.

I did connect the battery to charge and then put the fully charged battery back in the bike. The lights come on AND they turn off when I press the starter button.

I'm gonna try what @01-7700 suggested and see how that plays out and report back here by Friday the latest.
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post #28 of 32 Old 03-07-2017, 07:09 AM
 
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I prefer analog multi-meters to digital, a jumping analog needle shows you what's going on, the digitals ones need a stable signal before they decide if/what to show you, otherwise you just get scrolling numbers that only tells you it's thinking about if it wants to show you anything.

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post #29 of 32 Old 03-07-2017, 08:11 PM
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Andrew you want to pick a spot that is not chromed, polished, or painted, because the spark may damage the finish. Pick a bare ugly bolt head on the frame somewhere, where it won't matter if it arcs. Be sure the bike is in neutral.

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post #30 of 32 Old 03-11-2017, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
 
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Okay so probably a stupid question that's embarrassing to ask but like I said I know nothing of mechanics. I'm learning as I go.

So where exactly should the terminal be? I looked around my bike but I didn't see anything that I thought looked liked that. I tried googeling it but I didn't find anything helpful.
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