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Front end swap, Rebel to Twinstar..

8K views 35 replies 7 participants last post by  flitecontrol 
#1 ·
Well, the grand plan is to put a Rebel CMX250 front end on a Twinstar CM200t.
Reasons: I'd like a disc brake and better choice of front tires.
There are a number of concerns and I'm tiring to work them out.
I can only guess that the front end I'm looking at is an earlier one. There are no reflectors on the struts, the brake caliper is on the right side (looking at the bike head on). How can I determine the year?
Neck bearings, will the Rebel bearing be a direct swap?
I want to rebuild the brake cylinder and caliper, do they differ from year to year?
What about the wheel bearings, do they differ from year to year?
 
#2 ·
brake disc on right head on is what we usually call left - from the riders perspective

that's a 1996 - 2016 model - the year would be on the VIN plate at the front of the frame

it's a different setup than the 1985 - 1987 Rebel which had the disc on the right (left head on)

everything should be interchangeable if you stay within the same generation
 
#4 ·
Small progress update. I've rebuilt the master cylinder and caliper, neither were overly difficult to do. Sight glass on the master cylinder was a bit of hassle, finally pressed it in using a vise.
At this point I'm trying to figure out what handle bar switches and cables I can swap over to the Twinstar. The master cylinder is a no brainier, with a small rewire job for the brake light switch. Choke and throttle cables are going to require modification(s). Rebel choke cable has extremely small ends and a spring. Don't know if I'll need the spring for the handle mount choke. Throttle cable needs some more thought.
Might just stick with the Twinstar controls and figure out a re-location for the pull choke..
 
#5 ·
Wheel bearings replaced. I went to a local Bike Shop to have them pulled because I couldn't get the old ones out. Cost me $20, figured it was cheaper than a tool I'd use once or twice. Fork and dust seals replaced. Still working on a fix for the choke.
 
#6 ·
Wheel bearings typically just need to be driven out with a drift of some kind. A cold chisel will work, as will an appropriately sized bolt.
The first one is the hardest because you have to drop that spacer sleeve in the hub a little to expose the inner race on the far side. Then you get your drift on it and give it couple of good shots with a hammer to start it out. If you don't like so much violence, You could apply some heat to the hub to make the bearing come loose easier. Work around the inside of the bearing to drive it out evenly.
Placing the new bearings in the freezer and heating the hub makes putting the new ones in pretty easy. Don't forget the spacer between the 2 bearings though.
 
#7 ·
Duckster; while your advice is all very good and sound in practice.. Getting the collar (spacer) moved enough to get any kind of a workable gap was a no go. Heat didn't help. I couldn't get a grip on anything that would pull out.
Having looked at a small number of bearing pullers that "might" work, I opted to take it to a shop. A $20 investment was the cheaper solution in my case. I'm not one to give up easy, but this bearing replacement was a head ache.
 
#8 · (Edited)
I suspect the shop did what I have done in the past, just dropped the spacer enough to expose a lip on the bearing inner race (by drifting it down)and then drifting the bearing out from the opposite side. For 20 bucks at a shop it must have just taken them a couple of minutes.
 
#10 ·
Just like a car, the right and left sides of a motorcycle are from the riders perspective while sitting on the seat. The brake lever is on the right side, the clutch is on the left. Early model Rebels had the reflectors on the forks. Or rather "in" the forks. There was a place cast into the forks for the reflectors. That made removing the reflectors very difficult, because you actually had to grind that area down after removing the reflectors, then refinish the forks. Newer Rebels have the reflectors on the front downtube, making them easy to repair. I have always removed the reflectors from bikes if possible.

So anyway, if there are no reflectors on the forks, you probably have later model forks. I actually prefer drum brakes on the front of lightweight bikes just for their looks. I wish it were possible to put a Nighthawk 250 front wheel on a Rebel.
 
#11 ·
I have always removed the reflectors from bikes if possible.
I actually prefer drum brakes on the front of lightweight bikes just for their looks. I wish it were possible to put a Nighthawk 250 front wheel on a Rebel.
Since I don't need reflectors for our State Inspection, I'm not concerned about them, yet. If I do decide to mount some they will be on the frames down tube. There is a Honda piece for this, can't remember what bike it comes off of?
I also like the look of a drum, but wanted something different. I thought since the Twinstar and the Rebel are almost the same bike, I'd try a front end swap. (Twinstar being the grandfather of the Rebel.)
Why the Night Hawk wheel, is it to convert to a drum brake? Sounds do-a-bal. Hub the same size? Caliper mounts shouldn't interfere... Would you change the forks? This might solve any mounting problems...
 
#12 ·
#16 ·
Definitions:

> performance increase coupled with weight loss = bobber

> spending little to nothing on modifications = rat bike

In other words, the bobber is the motorcycle equivalent of hot rods while rat bikes are simply works of shoddy craftsmanship using hand me down parts and/or miscellaneous objects (re: junk). In further words, the modern misinterpretation of a bobber is actually a rat bike. ;)

While I still haven't addressed the exhaust (it's not being left that way, not even on a dare) I have been fooling around with different intakes such as dual carbs and the larger CB250 Nighthawk carb. I've shed some weight and bobbed both fenders, so while it matches the definition of a bobber I simply prefer calling it my "roadster"...mostly because I do not wish it to be associated with the modern misinterpretations. :p

Considering how it's a 97 model with 80's vintage covers and numerous CB250 Nighthawk parts, it could also be accurately described as a "frankenbike". :D
 
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#17 ·
Shadow Shack, in no my was I implying that the work was shoddy. So I will retract any "Rat Rod" implication(s). Yes, it looks more of a Bobber style. Roadster and Franken Bike fit it very well. I like where you've gone with it. Best of luck with the Carb Mod, doesn't sound like an easy swap type thing.
 
#18 ·
I never took it that way. :thumb:

The front end swap wasn't difficult. I was fortunate enough to acquire the bike with the front end, however the mounting was not compatible as the steering stem is a tad too long for the Rebel frame. I fabricated a spacer to take up the gap, ultimately I would prefer to thread the stem some more to get it properly tightened.

The bike was actually far more Nighthawk than Rebel when I acquired it...the prior owner bought it in "project status from a guy that sold it to him as an untitled/not running "Rebel Bobber" with no bodywork. Unbeknownst to the PO it was actually a CB250 Nighthawk but thinking the seller knew what he was talking about, he bought a titled Rebel frame and some bodywork but never got it running. I simply made it all work, yanking the Nighthawk wiring harness out and replacing it with a Rebel harness with working components.

Funny thing, while the motor is exactly the same between both bikes, the Rebel and Nighthawk use different wiring harnesses with different components. I find it odd Honda would do that...
 
#19 ·
Honda did a more than a few strange things when it comes to wiring. Most confusing thing is that they changed color codes over the years. Main wires have stayed the same colors but the component colors have changed. A number of different colored wires in the same circuit. They added diodes, clutch and side stand switches; more fuses, ignition relays and IMO other un needed stuff.
I use a number of different wiring diagrams to determine what is what. (80-81 Twinstar service manual, 85-87 CMX, 96-09 CMX color diagrams.)
I've decided to use a Rebel wiring harness for my modification. This will make it easier to connect the hand controls for one thing. I've removed most of what I call the un needed wires. Twinstar only has one coil, so more wires to get rid off. Neutral light had a number of different colored wires, it's been narrowed down to one. The ignition switch (key) is causing some head aches, Rebel had far to many "things" for the ignition. It's going to take some re wiring for this switch.
Sub harness for the rear lights is basically the same, so I can leave that alone.
Yes, there will be some that say the un needed components are safety systems. They maybe a good idea for novice riders, but I don't like them. I know to put my bike in neutral and engage the clutch when starting the bike. Can't say I've ever taken off with the kick stand down..
 
#25 ·
Few things I feel are worth mentioning. Biggest issue with mounting the front end, the steering stop. It needed to be removed from the CM's front tube. Cut it off flush, then using a dremel tool, rounded and made it flush. Haven't come up with putting on new steering stops and yes they could be needed. If you're going to do a rewire, don't cut anything on the replacement harness until after it's put on the bike and the rewire work starts. A few wires can be combined, mostly grounds; kill switch, rear lights moving it deeper into the harness. Hot wires run single line, no combining, most are now have fuses. A few wiring diagrams were used 80, 81, CM, 85-87, 96-09 CMX. All Came in handy when mixing old and new to make one harness. Rebels safety diode will fit out of the way under the gas tank. Left uncovered if replacement is ever needed.
 
#27 ·
When putting a cm250 chrome fender on my Rebel, I cut the original mounts off and had shorter, stainless one welded on



When mounting a CM250 chrome fender on my Rebel, I cut the fender mounts down to an inch or so and had stainless plates welded on, which I drilled to fit the Rebel mount bolts.
 
#28 ·
Bummer, the OEM paint site ColorRite.com only goes back to 1984 and gets sporadic after that. Nothing for 1980...
 
#30 ·
No Rebel air box to be had. Bought the fender as a spare, stand alone part. ($25 couldn't pass it up, paint is in very good shape with one small nick at the back lower edge. Touched it with up with a very close blue by VW.
 
#31 · (Edited)
#33 ·
Are you looking for the Rebel paint color, or the Twinstars? If the Rebel, and you know what year you are looking for, see if a member that has that year/color can give you the code. Does this help? https://www.motorcyclespareparts.eu/en/honda-parts/honda-color-codes https://www.paintscratch.com/touch_up_paint/Honda-Motorcycle/

Rebel color. Don't have a clue what year the fender is. It does have a mount for a right side brake hose, so it's an earlier one. Chart narrows down to a few colors what it might be. Need to find some color chips.. Thanks.
 
#36 ·
If you like the look, they could probably add metal flakes to the paint for added sparkle in the sun. The smaller flakes aren't nearly as visible as the big ones, but still make it sparkle.
 
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