Hard shifting when warm - Page 8 - Honda Rebel Forum
 4Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #71 of 80 Old 10-09-2019, 02:08 PM
 
SoakedKarma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Nevada
Posts: 1,436
@VAReb Honda oem shop manuals printed in Japan,, 250 date of issue Dec 1986
450 date of issue October 1986 which came without any Revision pages..

further reading of 2006 Honda oem shop manual I find this graphic on page 3-9
Attached Images
File Type: png Oil2006.png (204.1 KB, 4 views)
VAReb likes this.

96 VS800 Intruder (sold 2018 ), 87 CMX250C Rebel,
79 CB400 Hawk (sold 93), 75 CB350 (sold 83), 71 CB350 (stolen 74)
Help others help you, Include Year in your signature...
SoakedKarma is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #72 of 80 Old 10-09-2019, 03:36 PM Thread Starter
 
tabaka45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Brunswick, GA
Posts: 139
The following is copied from the Owner's Manual for a 2004 Honda Rebel. The chart at the end would not copy, however, it shows 10W30 and 10W40 for temperatures ranging from -10 degrees Celsius (14 degrees F) to above 45 degrees Celsius (113 degrees F). So I use synthetic 10W40 motorcycle oil. A lot of folks that ride XJ's have used Rotella 15W40 for years.

Engine Oil
Oil Recommendation
API
classification
viscosity
(weight)
JASO T 903
standard
74
Servicing Your Honda
SG or higher
except oils
labeled as energy
conserving on the
circular API
service label
SAE 10W-30
MA
suggested oil
Pro Honda GN4 4-stroke oil (USA
& Canada), or Honda 4-stroke oil
(Canada only), or an equivalent
motorcycle oil.
Suggested oils are equal in performance
to SJ oils that are not labeled as energy
conserving on the circular API service
label.


Your motorcycle does not need oil
additives. Use the recommended oil.
Do not use oils with graphite or
molybdenum additives. They may
adversely affect clutch operation.
Do not use API SH or higher oils
displaying a circular API ''energy
conserving'' service label on the
container. They may affect lubrication
and clutch performance.
NOT RECOMMENDED
Do not use non-detergent, vegetable, or
castor based racing oils.

Other viscosities shown in the following
chart may be used when the average
temperature in your riding area is within
the indicated range.
CHART DID NOT PRINT--SEE OPENING COMMENTS

tabaka45
2004 CMX 250 C Rebel--for the fun of it
2001 Honda 750 ACE--for the long rides
2004 Honda Aero 750 (Wife)--what can I say
1985 Yamaha XJ 700--for the old times
tabaka45 is offline  
post #73 of 80 Old 10-09-2019, 03:48 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 51
So 10w30 seems to have solved it for me, I stuck 10w30 in it, the castrol in the picture I posted earlier and it shifts great and the top end seems quieter to me not as much valvetrain noise. Just put 10 miles on it only had trouble finding neutral sitting still which I do on every bike, but move it an inch and it pops right into neutral. And I just dumped oil as clear as what I put back in 😭😭.

As far as the oil weight, manualslib.com has this for a 2007, sorry they are just screen shots, one place it says 10w30 next page says 10w30 and 10w40 on the same scale . But 10w30 made mine shift better
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screenshot_20191009-114531_Samsung Internet_1570646861029.jpg (316.6 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg Screenshot_20191009-114511_Samsung Internet_1570646869362.jpg (266.8 KB, 1 views)

06 rebel 250 100% stock
82 vespa grande
72 honda ct90
Mf11283 is offline  
 
post #74 of 80 Old 10-09-2019, 03:56 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 51
The same pages in my manual for my 2006
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20191009_115435_1570647348293.jpg (101.5 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 20191009_115429_1570647382496.jpg (104.5 KB, 4 views)

06 rebel 250 100% stock
82 vespa grande
72 honda ct90
Mf11283 is offline  
post #75 of 80 Old 10-09-2019, 04:01 PM Thread Starter
 
tabaka45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Brunswick, GA
Posts: 139
Let's just face it, the Rebel is temperamental about shifting and neutral. It can be a lot of things but I think it is the result of expansion in the clutch, transmission, etc as they heat up, which causes the clutch to "drag" while the engine is running. In shifting up I have found that preloading the shifter lightly makes it shift easily. Also, if I end up stopped and in first or second gear, bipping the throttle while preloading the shfiter often works.

tabaka45
2004 CMX 250 C Rebel--for the fun of it
2001 Honda 750 ACE--for the long rides
2004 Honda Aero 750 (Wife)--what can I say
1985 Yamaha XJ 700--for the old times
tabaka45 is offline  
post #76 of 80 Old 10-09-2019, 04:55 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Northern Virginia/Metro DC
Posts: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mf11283 View Post
So 10w30 seems to have solved it for me, I stuck 10w30 in it, the castrol in the picture I posted earlier and it shifts great and the top end seems quieter to me not as much valvetrain noise. Just put 10 miles on it only had trouble finding neutral sitting still which I do on every bike, but move it an inch and it pops right into neutral....
Very interesting to hear! This was my theory from the beginning. It reasoned that oil viscosity was implicated based on the symptoms increasing as the engine warmed up.

When I switch to 10-40 in the late-spring next year, I am going to pay very close attention to shifting. As mentioned, using 10-30 I have very smooth/easy shifts and no difficulty finding neutral. It is not temperamental at all with 10-30 oil.

I may also order the Honda OEM service manual for my 2016. I am curious to see if it contains the same oil info as that 2006 service manual, or whether Honda updated it and decided 10-30 was a better match to the Rebel clutch??


.

2016 Rebel 250 - - Black
VAReb is offline  
post #77 of 80 Old 10-09-2019, 05:40 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by VAReb View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mf11283 View Post
So 10w30 seems to have solved it for me, I stuck 10w30 in it, the castrol in the picture I posted earlier and it shifts great and the top end seems quieter to me not as much valvetrain noise. Just put 10 miles on it only had trouble finding neutral sitting still which I do on every bike, but move it an inch and it pops right into neutral....
Very interesting to hear! This was my theory from the beginning. It reasoned that oil viscosity was implicated based on the symptoms increasing as the engine warmed up.

When I switch to 10-40 in the late-spring next year, I am going to pay very close attention to shifting. As mentioned, using 10-30 I have very smooth/easy shifts and no difficulty finding neutral. It is not temperamental at all with 10-30 oil.

I may also order the Honda OEM service manual for my 2016. I am curious to see if it contains the same oil info as that 2006 service manual, or whether Honda updated it and decided 10-30 was a better match to the Rebel clutch??


.

I was originally thinking oil weight just from automotive manual transmissions when they switched from 90w to 75w90 to atf if you put 90w in a 75w90 trans you couldnt shift it for a few blocks then a few miles it would be good, and the multi weight oils act like 1 weight below a certain temp then the other over, so made sense that 10w was good but then holding 40w viscosity at temp was to thick. But I was using the speced oil.


Oh yea I ride in Van's so I feel a lot of the heat off the engine, the cover right next to the left foot peg is drastically cooler with 10w30 than it was with 10w40 I could probably touch it for less than a second with 10w40 but had my ankle resting on it while riding with 10w30 and it was just warm. I dont know what's under that cover trans gears?

06 rebel 250 100% stock
82 vespa grande
72 honda ct90
Mf11283 is offline  
post #78 of 80 Old 10-10-2019, 06:59 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Northern Virginia/Metro DC
Posts: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mf11283 View Post
....
Oh yea I ride in Van's so I feel a lot of the heat off the engine, the cover right next to the left foot peg is drastically cooler with 10w30 than it was with 10w40 I could probably touch it for less than a second with 10w40 but had my ankle resting on it while riding with 10w30 and it was just warm. I dont know what's under that cover trans gears?
Thatís interesting about the heat difference. I have not noticed high heat in that location, but I wear ankle-high boots while riding.

.

2016 Rebel 250 - - Black
VAReb is offline  
post #79 of 80 Old 10-10-2019, 09:01 AM
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 51
I couldnt give you an accurate temperature guesstimate cause, like I said earlier that's my bad ankle and most of that foot is numb but it got hot enough I could feel it "inside" my ankle very quickly then talking about all of this I reached down and touched it holy hell it was hot. On the 10w30 I rode for several miles at the end with my ankle resting on it, I didnt even get the warm feeling inside like a car heater does.


I have no clue what if anything that means and when I used the bnb inferred thermometer on the bike I didnt think to take a temp there


I'm thinking some along the lines of the bike only has 1300 miles so the gears are tight still and the 10w40 was just to thick creating excessive heat in the gears? I've seen this on car differentials but I would think 1300 miles the gears would all be broken in, unless the lady that bought it new didnt use higher gears🏼. Otherwise I'm at a loss.

06 rebel 250 100% stock
82 vespa grande
72 honda ct90
Mf11283 is offline  
post #80 of 80 Old 10-10-2019, 09:14 AM Thread Starter
 
tabaka45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Brunswick, GA
Posts: 139
One of the primary, if not the primary, purpose of oil is to cool the engine. I assume that the thinner oil would flow faster resulting in better cooling. But there has to be a trade off, since the oil also cushions the contacts points in an engine with a protective film. Too thick = less flow = less cooling but more protective film? too thin = more flow = more cooling but less protective film? I think as long as we stay in the oil guidelines stipulated by the engineers that built these bikes we should be ok. I've always run 10W40 synthetic in all my bikes--air cooled and water cooled--with no apparent problems. Remember, some of the newer cars call for 0W30 or 5W30 oil, I assume because of the closer tolerances the new engines have.

tabaka45
2004 CMX 250 C Rebel--for the fun of it
2001 Honda 750 ACE--for the long rides
2004 Honda Aero 750 (Wife)--what can I say
1985 Yamaha XJ 700--for the old times
tabaka45 is offline  
Reply

Tags
shifting problems

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Honda Rebel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome