Can't get into neutral - Page 2 - Honda Rebel Forum
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post #11 of 25 Old 06-26-2018, 01:36 PM
 
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Q-Ball, a lot of rebel owners have that reluctant-pop-past-neutral issue that if you kill the motor, it shifts into neutral effortlessly.

twist the throttle just a little, up the RPM 200-300, not that much, and it slips in easily.


Wyl Ike, 500 miles and the oil is thinned doesn't sound good. Petcock left in the on position and a stuck down float ought to have the extra fuel dripping on the floor from the bowl overflow before it gets deep enough to trickle down the manifold and through an open intake valve to puddle on the piston and leak past the rings into the oil.



Does the oil smell of gasoline when you change it?

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post #12 of 25 Old 06-26-2018, 02:02 PM
 
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I had this problem once with my Rebel. It was accompanied by requiring a lot of extra effort to actually shift. It turned out it happened because I accidentally overfilled the oil when trying to top it off (my bike burns a tiny amount of oil and occasionally needs topping off before the oil change interval). It wasn't doing it before I topped it off.

I fixed it by simply draining all of the oil and refilling with a more precise amount.


I thought that it could have been the oil because my other bike, the KZ750 I wrecked last year, had the same feeling of being hard to shift, and just on a lark, I figured maybe something was wrong with the oil, so I changed the filter and the oil and it worked fine after that.


Also, I've noticed that if I come to a stop and the bike won't shift into neutral, rolling sometimes doesn't help. What I do is, while the engine is running, I let the clutch lever out ever so slightly... not much, not even enough to get it to the friction point, just a little bit, and it'll shift into neutral.
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post #13 of 25 Old 06-26-2018, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckster View Post
When a bike will not go into neutral even with an experienced rider doing all the right things (clutch in all the way, bike rolling forward or backward even slightly while pressing on the lever lightly ) the problem is most likely a dragging clutch caused either by maladjustment, or by one or more warped clutch plates or some other mechanical clutch issue.
Our training fleet had a lot of 2017 Groms that would NOT go into neutral while running. This was a factory defect, not an adjustment problem.
Having said that, it is true that newbies can take a while to develop the knack of shifting into neutral as the bike is stopping, or rolling the bike just a little to find neutral while the bike is stopped.
Hoping it isn't that


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyl Ike View Post
I've noticed if the oil thins out, due to gasoline from carburetor trouble, all shifting, in general, is hard, especially finding neutral. You could try a fresh oil change and see if that makes a change. Also, check the crankcase vent tube, and make sure that isn't full, and hindering the release of moisture that develops in the crankcase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckster View Post
I've heard this case made many times by many people on here, but I have never observed this myself in any Honda I have owned or ridden.
Maybe I'm just not sensitive enough? Most of us change the oil every 1000 miles or so. Oil should not be significantly degraded in that mileage to the point that the rider could detect changes in viscosity. Bikes with no oil filter do start to accumulate suspended combustion contaminants in that mileage which should be removed by draining the oil, but the lubrication properties should not be degraded to the point of causing shifting problems or causing abnormal engine wear due to viscosity breakdown. Anyway, I guess YMMV.
Thanks Wy Ike and Duckster I will check the oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by kryton View Post
Q-Ball, a lot of rebel owners have that reluctant-pop-past-neutral issue that if you kill the motor, it shifts into neutral effortlessly.

twist the throttle just a little, up the RPM 200-300, not that much, and it slips in easily.
Tried to twist throttle a little and roll forward and backwards a little. made no difference.

Thanks for all the responses guys. I will let you know what I find. I probably won't look at it until the weekend.
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post #14 of 25 Old 06-26-2018, 02:52 PM
 
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Diagnostics: If you fight it three or four times, try killing the motor and see what happens, let us know...

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"The bravest thing for me to do is admit when I am wrong" - unknown
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post #15 of 25 Old 06-26-2018, 10:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flitecontrol View Post
Wyl Ike, are you turning the petcock to the off position when you park the bike? That should limit gas getting to the oil, even if the float valve leaks. If you still have the old carb and would like to sell it, I'd be interested.
flightcontrol,
Yes, I've been very careful to turn off the petcock below the tank every stop, even turning it off early, before I shut it off, to try to bleed off a little bit of gas in the bowl.
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post #16 of 25 Old 07-05-2018, 08:26 PM
 
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My 1986 250 is sensitive to oil over-fill. If it over-filled more than approximately an ounce, I have difficulties finding neutral swiftly and cleanly. Should she have a few ounces too much I can't seem to find neutral at all.
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post #17 of 25 Old 07-05-2018, 09:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by StarBaseONE2 View Post
My 1986 250 is sensitive to oil over-fill. If it over-filled more than approximately an ounce, I have difficulties finding neutral swiftly and cleanly. Should she have a few ounces too much I can't seem to find neutral at all.
There's no logical reason I can imagine why this should be so, therefore while I don't doubt your word, unless you can suggest a rationale for why a miniscule amount of extra oil would cause this, I remain skeptical that oil had anything to do with your problem.

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post #18 of 25 Old 07-05-2018, 10:21 PM
 
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I have seen so many posts on here about how hard it is to shift the Rebel. I have had 4 Rebels ('85,'99,'04, and my new 2016) and they are the best shifting bikes I've ever owned, out of almost 50. They are the ONLY bikes I've had that will snick right into gear from neutral with the engine running without a loud CLUNK. They shift perfectly while riding. Shifting a bike with the engine off and the bike not moving will often require that the bike be rocked back and forth a little so the gears line up. This is perfectly normal, all bikes are that way. I have no problem shifting mine from first through 5th without the engine running.
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post #19 of 25 Old 07-05-2018, 10:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckster View Post
There's no logical reason I can imagine why this should be so, therefore while I don't doubt your word, unless you can suggest a rationale for why a miniscule amount of extra oil would cause this, I remain skeptical that oil had anything to do with your problem.

I don't know why it would either, but I've had two bikes do it, my old '82 KZ750 and my '01 Rebel both. I've observed difficult shifting in addition to being unable to get into neutral... I attributed the inability to find neutral to the difficult shifting... just too much pressure required to shift so once it shifts, it goes straight to 2nd or 1st, skipping neutral.



I found a website talking about a transmission having too much transmission fluid resulting in the same problem: difficult shifting. It says it's because the transmission fluid foams... Of course with many motorcycles, the Rebel included, the transmission fluid is the same as the engine oil and even taken from the same reserve... So don't know if that's applicable here.


https://automotiveward.com/too-much-transmission-fluid/

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post #20 of 25 Old 07-05-2018, 11:46 PM
 
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If the oil level is at the full mark on the dipstick when the bike is vertical, then oil has nothing to do with it. IF there is a real problem with the shifting, it is most likely the clutch, although even that would not affect shifting with the engine off. I just went and checked my Rebel, and it shifts fine without the clutch when the engine is off, just by rocking it back and forth a little. Poor shifting while riding can simply be a clutch out of adjustment, or it can be caused by warped clutch. Twice in it's 128,000 miles my otherwise perfect shifting Vulcan 750 got to where it would barely shift at all. Both times it turned out to be warped friction plates, preventing the clutch from disengaging completely no matter how it is adjusted. On a used bike, there is also the possibility that the shift mechanism could have been damaged by the previous owner. I have seen many riders pull up to a red light, shift into neutral, then when the light changed, they would literally kick the bike into gear as hard as they could. This is not good for the transmission, and will cause damage.
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