opinions on whether i should buy new engine or not - Honda Rebel Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 08-03-2019, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
 
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opinions on whether i should buy new engine or not

Hi all,

I am restoring a 1986 rebel right now. The engine that I bought with the bike has an exhaust stud that has broken off and it is stuck in the exhaust stud hole. I have taken the engine to several machine shops and all of them referred me to a motorcycle shop near where I live, but told me it may be a few hundred to have it drilled out. The motor has been sitting for several years, has been painted and had the paint stripped, needs new gaskets, and has 16K miles on it. I have come up with four options:

1) Try my best with "screw out" and try to get the broken stud out myself.
2) Have machine shop drill out broken exhaust stud for around $100-$300 (I'm guessing. I'll call when theyre open to get an actual estimate)
3) Buy new cylinder heads. (I can't find any online so i don't know the price. just an option i thought of to avoid buying a whole new engine)
4) Buy a new engine.

I'm leaning towards option 4 just because the motor I have is already high mileage and has not had proper maintenance. These are my questions:

1) Will the later generation rebel 250 engines fit on a 1986 rebel 250?
2) Where is the best place to find (online or in person) rebel 250 engines?
3) Where can I find cylinder heads and is that something I should look into?
4) Is it worth just having a machine shop fix that problem for several hundred and use the old engine?

Please share any opinions or ask any questions you need to. Thanks a ton in advance.

Matthew Mills
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post #2 of 25 Old 08-03-2019, 02:52 PM
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If possible, I'd do a valve adjustment followed by dry and wet compression tests on your engine. If the results are positive, I would try to fix it. Start applying penetrating fluid (Kroil is best) to the broken stud twice daily. See what a machine shop would charge to drill it with a left hand drill bit. Often, that is enough to remove the stud. If not, use a square, not threaded, screw extractor, which you may be able to do yourself. Or have the machine shop do it. Also ask the machine shop what they would charge to drill the stud out and install a time-sert. Any qualified machine shop should be able to install a time-sert. Those studs get brittle with age, and if it were mine, I'd replace them all. Start giving each one a twice daily squirt of Kroil, and after 3-7 days, put two nuts on each stud (don't overtighten and snap the stud) and jam one nut against the other. Tap each end lightly with a hammer and then gently try to tighten and then loosed each stud. You don't want to break them off and multiply your problems. If they don't loosen up, go back to the Kroil and tap/tighten/loosen until they do.
++ TIME-SERT Official Threaded inserts for stripped threads, blown out sparkplugs,

Used parts and engines are usually available on ebay as well as Jack's Rebel Warehouse Jack's Rebel Warehouse - Rebel Catalog, Honda Rebel parts and accessories Jack doesn't list his inventory of used parts, so contact him. Low mileage engines on ebay run about $350-$400.

Unless the engine has been badly abused, 16,000 miles isn't much. Forum members have put over 100,000 miles on Rebel 250s. What gaskets need replacing, and why?

Here's a thread about the engines fitting.
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post #3 of 25 Old 08-03-2019, 03:18 PM
 
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steel stuck in a blind hole in an aluminum part, immerse in a heated alum solution for several days. There wil be very little solid ferrous material left.. can't entirely immerse or valve seats and other studs will disappear

there are times a smaller bolt can be arc welded to broken end,, the heating also helps loosen stud as a bonus.

also available is Metal Disintegration Machine (MDM) operated by Jerry's broken drill and tap.
Services ? Jerry's Broken Drill & Tap Removal Check out some of his videos..
He will dissuade you from doing it yourself




>> any machinist I know would only drill and tap with head off engine.. not hard to center drill and obtain proper angle when locked in drill press vice.. << route I would be looking into

If you have never rebuilt an engine you can do it,, IF up to challenge

search wreckers like Copart for deals on complete bikes in your area.. sell parts not used.

96 VS800 Intruder (sold 2018 ), 87 CMX250C Rebel,
79 CB400 Hawk (sold 93), 75 CB350 (sold 83), 71 CB350 (stolen 74)
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post #4 of 25 Old 08-03-2019, 03:28 PM
 
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How much did you pay for this bike/engine? That affects the decision process. If you have a lot sunk in already, replacing the engine might be a worthwhile marginal cost.

On the other hand, if you add up all the costs and time associated with replacing the engine, it might make more sense to buy a newer serviceable Rebel.

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post #5 of 25 Old 08-03-2019, 05:08 PM
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A later model engine can be made to fit in a first gen rebel.

If it were me I would attempt the repair myself. The first thing I would do is measure very carefully the distance between studs to make a drilling template. I would also fit the template between the fins so it couldn't move. I would also get some left handed drill bits (or right hand but get good ones don't go cheap on these) of a few sizes from small to just under the smallest dimension of the screw threads. The template would be used to start the hole on center using the smallest bit- so it would be predrilled, attached to the head using the 1 good stud, and wedged in to align and fix. Then each successive bit would drill through the template into the stud making sure the bit is following the stud precisely. If all goes well you would have the remnants of the stud left in the threads of the hole which you would then get out using a pick.

1985 Rebel 250 ... 2005 Ruckus 50
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post #6 of 25 Old 08-04-2019, 05:00 PM Thread Starter
 
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Okay, so I'm about to do a compression test to determine what I want to do with the engine next. Thank you all for your responses; they've all been very helpful. I'll fill ya'll in on the project a little bit: I bought this bike for $100 from a friend and I have invested $600 in it. I've repainted the whole thing and I am now in the process of re-assembling it. I'm fine with doing extra work on the bike because I bought it as a project; mainly to learn, but I would like to have it done at the end of this month so I can drive it around at college. I figured to start my first project with a cheaper bike so if I mess something up it won't be a big deal. The main gaskets that need to be replaced are the left and right crankcase gaskets because the owner before me used liquid gasket and it leaks oil. It may be leaking oil from somewhere else though. I have some questions:

What compression readings should I expect for wet and dry compression tests?
For that alum solution: Where can I purchase that solution and can it damage the aluminum?
What left hand drill bits should I use? How do I make a template?
I've never done anything like this before. It's not as straight forward as assembling things. I appreciate the responses and I am considering all of them. I attached a picture of the bike currently just in case ya'll were curious.
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post #7 of 25 Old 08-04-2019, 08:35 PM
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Use a new drill bit(s) in a drill press so the hole is drilled straight. A center punch helps getting the initial hole aligned properly. Remember if the head is damaged, it will cost more to fix it than to have a professional do it right the first time.

Here's a thread on doing a compression test and includes readings. https://www.hondarebelforum.com/f39/...test-8443.html

Most auto parts stores will loan compression testers.

The left crankcase is dry. If you have oil coming out the weep hole on the bottom, the crankcase seal is leaking and should be replaced. A bearing supply store can probably provide one cheaper than a stealership.

Keepin' all the left over parts. Gonna use 'em to build another bike!

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post #8 of 25 Old 08-06-2019, 12:33 AM Thread Starter
 
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So I tested the compression in the engine. 90 psi in both cylinders when wet. it was much lower when dry. I read in the manual it needs to be 200psi +/- 28 psi. When I tested the compression, the engine was cold. Would it test higher when the engine is hot? Is 90 psi a good reading for a cold engine? I'm considering buying a new engine now if it is too low of compression. I want to rebuild that motor eventually, but I want to get the bike running soon.
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post #9 of 25 Old 08-06-2019, 10:57 AM
 
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Duckster of yore, had advocated used engines as a reasonable option.

Honda Rebel 2005; Yamaha TX500 (prior)
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post #10 of 25 Old 08-06-2019, 11:21 AM
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The engine is supposed to be warm when doing a compression test. Not sure how much difference there should be with a cold engine.

Keepin' all the left over parts. Gonna use 'em to build another bike!

'01 & '09 Rebel 250, '06 Ninja 250, '89 VN 750
Putting your bike year and model in your signature helps others help you!
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cold/hot comp test, stud extractors best

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