Hey guys - NEED HELP! - Honda Rebel Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 06-17-2019, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
 
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Hey guys - NEED HELP!

Hey all - long time lurker, first time poster. Let me first say that this site has been an invaluable tool with the newest addition to my garage!

I bought an 83 cm250c, 14k miles, maintained well - $500, couldn’t say no.. and until this point it has been nothing but fun.
But now that fun has turned into a headache.
It started with the bike dying on my ride home. By “dying” I mean, after about 10-15 minutes on the highway w/ not quite WOT but close, it completely bottomed out and stalled as I coasted to my exit.
My first thought was the carb, of course. (Although the battery mysteriously was DOA when I tried to start it again)
Was able to pop start it and get home, but it was leaning out (popping from exhaust, sluggish throttle response, basically limped home.) All signs seemed to point to dirty carb, so my next step was to remove the carburetor and give it a thorough cleaning - 24-36hr soak, reassembled to spec (i say with slight hesitation due to limited info on factory jet settings) it was dirty, but not the worst I’ve ever seen.. I felt confident that I had found the problem.

Fast forward to today - bike is completely reassembled as I nervously sat atop of a large hill preparing to pop start it for the first time. (Keep in mind that the battery is still kinda dead, nothing a nice 30 minutes of riding wouldn’t fix)

Now, here’s where things get really REALLY frustrating. I pop start it and it will not idle without holding the throttle - otherwise it bogs down and bottoms out - was able to get it into gear and acceleration is horribly sluggish, pairing with more popping, however now it seems to be running rich - the popping BEFORE the carb cleaning was definitely lean, this seems to be an exhaust explosion.

My first thought was to pull the carb and adjust the mixture screw (2.25 turns out from lightly seated) but this did nothing.
Im now looking into whether or not I fouled the plugs from this whole ordeal.. as well as double checking to make sure it’s seated in the 2 rubber boots completely snug.. but aside from this, I’m kinda at a loss..

Anyway, I figured reaching out may help me to see something I may have overlooked. Any and all input is greatly appreciated!!
Thanks in advance everyone.
Be safe out there! 🏍️👍🏼
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post #2 of 28 Old 06-17-2019, 11:46 PM
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Is the fuel hose new? Old hoses can deteriorate from the inside and gum up the carb.
Have you installed an inline fuel filter? It's cheap insurance stuff in the tank/line won't mess up a clean carb. Is the gas in the tank fresh? Is there visible rust in the tank?

What did you soak the carb in, and did you rinse it and then blow out all the openings with high pressure compressed air? It often takes multiple, extended (48 hours) soakings in Berrymans Chem Dip to get a really gummed up carb clean.

Was the fuel enricher (choke) on (lever pulled toward the rider)?

If the PO had the engine warmed up when you arrived, it may have been for a reason; it's easier for a weak battery to start a warm engine. If the battery needs charging, the best way to do that is with a charger at no more than two amps. The Rebel charging system is notoriously underwhelming, so it may not charge a depleted battery very quickly, if at all. Once the battery has been charged, take it to a parts store and have them load test it. If it needs to be replaced, get a Yuasa battery. Good quality and they last a long time.

Check the plugs to be sure they are clean and properly gapped. Make sure both plugs are producing a nice, blue spark.

Are you using the choke to start it, but still need the throttle to keep it running.

Keepin' all the left over parts. Gonna use 'em to build another bike!

'01 & '09 Rebel 250, '06 Ninja 250, '89 VN 750
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post #3 of 28 Old 06-18-2019, 01:33 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the reply.

I DID replace the fuel hose - but have yet to install a fuel filter. Fresh gas in the tank, no VISIBLE rust, however I guess that’s always a possibility.

Soaked in Berryman’s chem dip for a solid day and then used a toothbrush and spray cleaner - no air compressor, so I was unable to use compressed air.

Choke was pulled all the way out.. this is usually how my bike likes to start..

When I first bought it, it would start right up (cold start) EVERY time.
I have the battery charging now @ 2amps and I’ll let it run overnight.

Tomorrow my plan is to pull the plugs - and hopefully start ruling some things out... what is the correct gapping on these?

And yes - when I was able to get it started, the choke was pulled all the way out and I needed to keep on the throttle to keep it from sputtering out. Prior to this i’d use the choke on a cold start and it ran/idled perfectly..



If I can’t get her to run tomorrow, I’m going to pull the carb again, give it a longer soak and order a rebuild kit.
Today I DID discover that the rubber boot that sits between the carb and air box wasn’t seated 100% snug in the air box. I fixed that, but I don’t think that was my problem.

On the plus side, I’m getting very good at pulling the carb, taking it all apart and getting everything back together 🏻
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post #4 of 28 Old 06-18-2019, 08:35 AM
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It exhbits some symptoms of a dirty carb. Every CMX250 I've had was finicky about how much choke they needed, and none would start with more than about 1/2 choke. Not sure that's applicable to the CM250, but suspect it is because the engines are essentially the same. Needing excessive choke is an indication of a dirty carb. It really takes high pressure compressed air to blow out rust and stubborn remnants in the small passages of the carb. If you can't access an air compressor, get something similar to this and take it to a gas station that has compressed air. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Plews-18-...ingMethod=p13n

I think the record for one forum member was five 48 hour or longer soaks before their carb was completely clean. IIRC, the instructions on the can of Chem Dip indicate to soak it for 45 minutes. As demonstrated by the experience above, that isn't going to get the job done every time. The longer the soak, the more likely it will get the job done. If you have access to an ultrasonic cleaner, they do a very good job of carb cleaning in much less time.

The correct spark plug gap for the CMX250 is 0.6 - 0.7mm/0.02 - 0.03in. Not sure if it's the same for your bike.

When you pull it, check the jet needle diaphragm for tears or shrinkage that won't allow it to seal properly. Soaking rubber in a dilute solution of oil of wintergreen softens and expands it. I've used it on an old, shrunken, stiff diaphragm and it looked as new.

Becoming adept at carb removal and installation is a good skill to have, but one most of us wish we didn't need!

Keepin' all the left over parts. Gonna use 'em to build another bike!

'01 & '09 Rebel 250, '06 Ninja 250, '89 VN 750
Putting your bike year and model in your signature helps others help you!
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post #5 of 28 Old 06-18-2019, 08:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBobber717 View Post

Tomorrow my plan is to pull the plugs - and hopefully start ruling some things out... what is the correct gapping on these?
0.02-0.03" or 0.6-0.7mm.

Oh wait! That's for a Rebel!! Didn't see you have a CM250...

MC.com ruined this forum

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post #6 of 28 Old 06-18-2019, 12:16 PM
 
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Have to keep the throttle cracked to keep it running?
CM250 on line pics show is close enough to CMX250.
Idle mix screw 2.75 out from gently seated, idle stop screw turned till the funky dog leg link that pushes the accelerator pump rod is just kinda probably maybe touching the end of the rod.
If it's clean it will idle without throttle like this after being warmed up.
If you didn't add an inline filter and flush the tank, you will probably find the bowl is coated in a brown make-up like powder (fine rust particles) that re-clogged up your freshly cleaned carb.



And please get a battery, it is much safer to test in your driveway then rolling down a hill on top of 300lbs of pain inflicting metal with your fingers crossed.

2009 Honda Rebel 250; 2009 Honda Shadow 750 Spirit
"The bravest thing for me to do is admit when I am wrong" - unknown
HRF Answer #1 You should take the MSF Rider Course
HRF Answer #2 You need to clean your carburetor
HRF Answer #3 Sorry we assumed if you didn't say otherwise
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post #7 of 28 Old 06-18-2019, 04:50 PM Thread Starter
 
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Hey all - thanks for the replies!

I charged up the battery, pulled the carb and adjusted everything as per your recommendation.. then I pulled the plugs and they were wet..
The battery finally had enough juice to try to start it and I could hear the starter motor turning, but that’s it! No spark.

So I pulled off the stator cover to inspect and ALAS I discovered my problem! The ground screw on my stator had come loose and was flying around like shrapnel inside the fly wheel... the plastic around the magnets had been shredded to a black powder and the whole thing smelled like burnt popcorn.. LUCKILY the PO included a box of spare parts including an extra stator and fly wheel..

I don’t have the tool to remove the flywheel - any hacks/tips would be appreciated..
But I hooked up the new stator and attempted to start it and it’s SO close.. it wants to start.. it cranks and sounds like something is happening, but ultimately won’t fire to stay running.

My NEW problem has to do with the 2 wires running to the stator - not the yellows, the green and black.. if I follow the green down to the actual stator, there is an end that leads nowhere and is attached to nothing..
I am now entering an arena that is outside of my element, as I do not have as firm of an understanding of the electrical components as I do the mechanical.

I will try to post a picture in a little bit.. but does anybody know where the 2 solo wires (not the yellows in the clip) are supposed to go? The one seems to lead into the bottom of the stator and the other has a female end (similar to the male end on the other side) but no obvious place where it attaches..

Somebody suggested that this could be a ground... at this point all I have is trial and error.
I will keep tinkering and report back!
Any info would be appreciated!

And charging the battery was a godsend - idk about you guys but I’m out of shape and it’s been hot and muggy in Pennsylvania.. pushing a motorcycle up a steep hill 4-5 times in the hot sun had me questioning everything about my life at this exact moment haha
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post #8 of 28 Old 06-18-2019, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
 
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Here’s the mysterious wire the goes nowhere
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post #9 of 28 Old 06-18-2019, 05:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBobber717 View Post

I donít have the tool to remove the flywheel - any hacks/tips would be appreciated..
If the CM engine is like a Rebels, a 16mm bolt with 1.5 pitch threads will do the job.

MC.com ruined this forum

Silver '86 450
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post #10 of 28 Old 06-18-2019, 05:53 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thank you - I need to head down to the hardware store and I’ll pick one of these up.
Could the flywheel keep it from firing?
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