Hard starting when cold, choke problem? - Honda Rebel Forum
 
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post #1 of 9 Old 02-04-2020, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
 
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Hard starting when cold, choke problem?

Normally this bike fires first time, every time.


This morning everything was frosted over pretty well, bucket of water outside had a frozen layer on top.

When I pulled the choke toward me, it seemed like after about 1/2 of the way toward me there was much less resistance than usual. I pulled the choke all the way forward as I usually do.
Dabbed the starter, bike fired immediately, then died after about 3-4 seconds. Dabbed the starter again, same thing. I was able to get it started and kept that way by revving at the low end (working the accelerator pump), it wouldn't rev high in fact it would just cut out totally. So after a few minutes of flogging the poor beast I was able to get a low idle that would hold.


Now as I pushed the choke back to the half-way point, which for me is when about where the rpm's drop, nothing changed. Pushing it beyond that point did seem to make a difference though, where the idle feels like it's about to go too low, this is normal until after about 5 minutes of driving.


Is it possible the choke got stuck in the carb part way and didn't fully engage? I can't really see how, but that's how the symptoms appear. In hindsight, I would have banged the carb where the choke enters while working the choke.



Any thoughts appreciated.

1974 CB125S (purchased 1983, ate 2 crankshafts, sold 1984)
1986 Rebel 250 / N. California (purchased 2019)
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post #2 of 9 Old 02-04-2020, 04:04 PM
 
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Rebel uses an enricher valve that opens additional fuel port rather than blocking off air intake as a choke does..
It is conceivable valve could stick open as spring is only force used to close valve when cable tension is released..
my bike will die when more than 1/2 to 2/3 of the way open. After starting I reduce enrichment incrementally..
Image is of enricher valve, spring, and black plastic retaining nut that holds assembly (circled in Red) into carburetor..
I always allow a little warm up time while putting on helmet, gloves, etc. before riding in freezing weather.. Assume you have original oil soaked foam air filter which is easily cleaned in solvent. Paper filter can swell fibers in high humidity conditions blocking some of air intake..
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File Type: jpg EnricherValve.jpg (267.0 KB, 2 views)

96 VS800 Intruder (sold 2018 ), 87 CMX250C Rebel,
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post #3 of 9 Old 02-04-2020, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks. OK, enricher not choke



So as I engage the enricher, is it pushing the cable into the carb, expecting the spring to do the actual work? Does that sound right, it would make sense it could get stuck then. I guess I'll pull it off this afternoon and take a look, maybe increase the spring tension if I can find a spring in the shop that'll work.



Yes, oil soaked filter, cleaned about a month ago.


I also allow warm up time before taking off (regardless of weather), back the enricher off until it's almost stalling, then start to ride, incrementally reducing the enricher to off as quickly as possible, without the engine bogging down.

1974 CB125S (purchased 1983, ate 2 crankshafts, sold 1984)
1986 Rebel 250 / N. California (purchased 2019)
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post #4 of 9 Old 02-05-2020, 12:57 AM
 
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cable pulls the valve open as it is engaged..
use care not to cross thread plastic retaining nut, it needs to only be finger tight upon reinstall

96 VS800 Intruder (sold 2018 ), 87 CMX250C Rebel,
79 CB400 Hawk (sold 93), 75 CB350 (sold 83), 71 CB350 (stolen 74)
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post #5 of 9 Old 02-05-2020, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
 
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Well I am stumped. Nothing obviously wrong. My best guess at this point is moisture in the carb that froze overnight blocking something. Seems pretty improbable though.

1974 CB125S (purchased 1983, ate 2 crankshafts, sold 1984)
1986 Rebel 250 / N. California (purchased 2019)
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post #6 of 9 Old 02-05-2020, 04:09 PM
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I had a fuel line on my truck freeze in the days before ethanol. Pushed it into a sunny spot and after an hour it started. Put some Heet (alcohol) in the tank and it never happened again.

Keepin' all the left over parts. Gonna use 'em to build another bike!

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post #7 of 9 Old 02-05-2020, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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That's a really good point flitecontrol. I ran out of sta-bil a few weeks ago and have run a couple of tanks of straight gas since then. I wonder if that would have made a difference? I know it's not the same thing as heet, but still.


Oh well, I AM in north California, it rarely hits freezing overnight and luckily I'm in a rural area so nobody to annoy revving the engine like I had to yesterday.


Maybe I should invest in a hair dryer and extension cord!

1974 CB125S (purchased 1983, ate 2 crankshafts, sold 1984)
1986 Rebel 250 / N. California (purchased 2019)
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post #8 of 9 Old 02-05-2020, 08:31 PM
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Could also be bad gas. Got some from a bulk distributor for the work fleet years ago. After it plugged up a couple of fuel pumps, we discovered it had leaves in it.

Keepin' all the left over parts. Gonna use 'em to build another bike!

'01 & '09 Rebel 250, '06 Ninja 250, '89 VN 750
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Here's how: https://www.hondarebelforum.com/f19/...re-121087.html
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post #9 of 9 Old 02-10-2020, 08:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leebrown66 View Post
Well I am stumped. Nothing obviously wrong. My best guess at this point is moisture in the carb that froze overnight blocking something. Seems pretty improbable though.
This was my thinking, too. Freezing temps were the anomalous conditions when the problem occurred. So it stands to reason that icing somewhere in the system would be a likely culprit.

Another possibility could be moisture inside the enricher cable that froze and made it stiff/jam.

.

2016 Rebel 250 - - Black
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