2009 Rebel 250 idles fine but dies with a little throttle - Page 2 - Honda Rebel Forum
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post #11 of 28 Old 06-08-2017, 06:35 AM
 
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Wonderful News! Congrats and take some time to enjoy it while waiting on a buyer. I've had a few occasion of someone seeing mine and asking when will I be ready to sell it because they are looking for one for <FAMILYMEMBER>'s first bike.

2009 Honda Rebel 250; 2009 Honda Shadow 750 Spirit
"The bravest thing for me to do is admit when I am wrong" - unknown
HRF Answer #1 You should take the MSF Rider Course
HRF Answer #2 You need to clean your carburetor
HRF Answer #3 Sorry we assumed if you didn't say otherwise
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post #12 of 28 Old 06-08-2017, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
 
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My wife wants to ride again. The aforementioned Suzuki Savage was hers, but she outgrew it, then we never got around to getting her another bike. If I kept this bike, I would do the sprocket and chain upgrade kit (about $100 on Amazon), which I hear does wonders for this bike.

She'll ride it until it sells - again, gotta ride 'em and not let 'em sit!

However, it's my FIL's girlfriend's bike, and she wants the money because she obviously didn't get into riding (thus only 800 miles), she prefers 2-up on the FIL's GoldWing.

I don't have the cash to buy it at the moment, even if I wanted to.

ALSO, the deal is that I get a 25% commission on the sale, plus cost of parts, because it wasn't running and she was going to unload it for $1200 as-is. I was like, NO! Let me fix it and pay me a cut and you'll STILL come out ahead. I spent about 10 hours on it and I expect to get about $500 in my pocket, so that's a pretty good hourly rate for something I otherwise enjoy doing.

It's a fun little bike, though. I was thiiiiiiis close to buying one as my first bike until I got wind of that '86 Shadow 750 from a friend of a friend - his wife wanted it GONE because it was costing money but was never fixed (why the shop couldn't figure it out is beyond me - they just kept flushing the clutch lines and charging him outrageous money) and he was unemployed at the time. At $500, I basically stole it from him, but his wife was happy, so it was a win-win in my eyes.

Anyway, I'm glad I got an extended chance to work on it and ride the Rebel! It's fun but it's nothing near my '09 Kawasaki Concours 1400. I might have a special casket made so I can be buried with my Connie

This forum was a wealth of information. I used it to figure out some stuff with the carb lines, the valve job, and the crankshaft seal. Thanks!
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post #13 of 28 Old 06-21-2017, 09:22 PM
 
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"You apply a little throttle and she starts to struggle and will die if you don't"

Since I am experiencing the same thing on a system that was gone over three times by a good pro I'd like to know what would say was the single important thing to cause the problem.

I've got a new tank, new petcock, new choke, new needle valve and gasket, etc.

Thanks.

“How people treat you is their karma; how you react is yours.”**– Wayne Dyer

1985 Black and Red 250 #5688

2033 Multipearlized XJ10 Hoverbike
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post #14 of 28 Old 06-21-2017, 11:22 PM
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I'll let him respond, but suspect it was the dip in Berrymans that did the trick. Has your carb been cleaned, and if so, was it in an ultrasonic cleaner?

Keepin' all the left over parts. Gonna use 'em to build another bike!

'01 & '09 Rebel 250, '06 Ninja 250, '89 VN 750
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post #15 of 28 Old 06-22-2017, 02:38 AM
 
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Don't know if it was cleaned but I assumed it was as it was a very professional shop, clean, organized, and popular. I'll call
them tomorrow and double check.

So far I have looked at a lot of posts and no one has really nailed down what it is. It is VERY frustrating to have such
a good ride and not be able to trust going out very far in confidence. Today on a 140 round trip (cities are far away from each other up here)
it hauled butt on the highways in the morning when it was cooler. By 11 I was driving in 100+ weather and a couple of times
I stopped for a few mins and it started fine but just a little throttle would start the choking sequence. My milage was 72MPG
and it never stalled when running.

Thanks

“How people treat you is their karma; how you react is yours.”**– Wayne Dyer

1985 Black and Red 250 #5688

2033 Multipearlized XJ10 Hoverbike
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post #16 of 28 Old 06-22-2017, 06:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRebel View Post
just a little throttle would start the choking sequence
"just rolling on a little throttle" is where the accelerator pump does its job, might be worth checking...

2009 Honda Rebel 250; 2009 Honda Shadow 750 Spirit
"The bravest thing for me to do is admit when I am wrong" - unknown
HRF Answer #1 You should take the MSF Rider Course
HRF Answer #2 You need to clean your carburetor
HRF Answer #3 Sorry we assumed if you didn't say otherwise
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post #17 of 28 Old 06-22-2017, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
 
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The accelerator pump was hard to move when I first took the carb apart. That's the little plunger with a rubber disc on the side, not fully inside the carb.

There's a cap, and a spring inside there, and there appear to be passageways in the cap, I imagine to pump a little gas to the carb. I soaked the cap for 48 hrs in Berryman's dip ($18 at Wally World), in addition to the float bowl and the main/secondary jets/nozzles/whatever they're called (the two brass things you screw out).

Rinsed them out, shook off the water and wiped them down, just blew on the holes with my mouth (didn't have an air compressor handy) to get any water out.

I took EVERYTHING apart. The screw holding the throttle assembly to the body was super tight, but I got it apart. That whole area there where the plunger is for the accelerator pump got pulled apart. After I got it back together, I could see that the throttle operated the plunger just slightly, then it hits a stop/metal tab so the plunger doesn't go too far.

I replaced the idle jet, the thing outside the carb with the little metal cap. I carefully followed the instructions for setting the idle (alternating between the black knurled knob and the little metal cap, plus a $12 tach from Amazon) as detailed earlier in this thread.

Put everything back together and she purrs like a kitten now. I've had a few tire kickers but it's NASTY hot in Sacramento this week (111F today!) so I don't expect anyone to suit up and head over to buy it until the weather cools

As flitecontrol pointed out, I, too, suspect that getting that accelerator pump cap in the Berryman's was the key. Might as well soak the float bowl while you're at it, it fits in the Berryman's and you've got to wait anyway.
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post #18 of 28 Old 06-22-2017, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
 
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http://www.hondarebelforum.com/f76/h...iagram-95.html

The accelerator cap I'm talking about is part #34.
The "throttle assembly screw" that was super tight is part #44. I had to use a box end wrench, not a screwdriver.

I had a carb kit from eBay and replaced the float valve and the float bowl gasket. The carb had multiple issues from sitting in hot weather for 5 years. The accelerator pump issue was discovered after I got it running. Should've just spent the cash on the Berryman's in the first place. It's an easy bike to work on (except getting the carb in and out had me cursing for about 5 minutes).
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post #19 of 28 Old 06-22-2017, 02:15 PM
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Just remember DON'T put any rubber or plastic parts in the ChemDip.

So to summarize, shuste73, your problem could have been solved by cleaning the carb, or getting the accelerator pump freed up, or replacing the pilot air mixture screw, or replacing the float valve, or adjusting the idle and pilot air mixture correctly, but you think that it was mostly from cleaning the accelerator pump cover.

Is that a fair statement, or was there anything else that you did all at the same time that may have fixed the problem, or did you do some of this and find that it did not help, and then do some more?

DesertRebel, the accelerator pump may be causing your problem. However, I think you should still go down that list I gave you in your other thread, in the order that I listed them, because any of those things could cause the same symptoms, and I listed them in the order of easiest to do first, followed by progressively more involved, or in depth checks. Once you get to the clean the carb step, everything else is done while you have the carb apart.

It makes no sense to take the carb apart without cleaning everything, and it makes no sense to clean it without inspecting everything, and it makes no sense put it back together without replacing everything that appears damaged or faulty, and it makes no sense to put it back together without making sure everything is functioning correctly, and it makes no sense not to adjust the idle and pilot air mixture after you put it back together and back on the bike.
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post #20 of 28 Old 06-22-2017, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
 
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It is NOT a fair statement, I don't think. Here's the way it went down...

First, the bike sat for 5 years. In-laws decided to sell it since it wasn't being ridden.

But it wouldn't start.

I had them bring me the carb ONLY. I took it apart and soaked a couple parts in SeaFoam for 30 min. Found the float valve STUCK by verdigris, which is why it wouldn't start (no gas!). So I put in a new float valve and gasket because I had the carb kit with those parts. The accelerator pump was very stiff/stuck. The rubber perimeter was stuck to the metal. I pried it off, took it all apart, it looked okay, put it back together.

Gave it back to them (my in-laws).

They reinstalled the carb and it started up, but now exhibited a NEW problem - little bit of throttle and it tries to die, but runs if you gas it. They didn't want to mess with it, said they were going to donate to charity and take it as a write-off. I said no, give it to me, I'll fix it and sell it for you for X% of the sale price and you'll come out way ahead.

They rode it 15 miles to my place and it didn't stall, but it almost would when starting off.

I took the carb apart again and soaked it, went deeper this time. It wasn't my bike, so it made perfect sense to figure out what the immediate "doesn't start" problem was, and that was CLEARLY the stuck float valve. With this new problem, a full carb disassembly and soak was in order, which is what I then did, and that has fixed the problem.


FACT: The soak was AFTER I did the other stuff, so that other stuff wasn't the fix.
FACT: That was the ONLY problem that persisted at that point.
FACT: The idle/pilot valve was fine, I just replaced it because you had to buy the assembly to get the cap.
FACT: The "stalls on slight throttle" problem was definitively fixed by the long soak of the accelerator pump cap and the float bowl. There was only this effort at the point where this problem exhibited, and that was the soak. The soak HAD to have fixed it.

Which one was the key, the cap or the bowl? Not sure, but since the purpose of the accelerator pump is to give it a little gas on a tiny bit of throttle, my conclusion is based on Occam's Razor - the simplest answer is the most likely answer - it was the accelerator pump cap.
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