2017 Rebels Announced - Page 38 - Honda Rebel Forum
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post #371 of 412 Old 05-11-2017, 08:52 PM
 
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Hate is a such a strong word. I think the controversy and possibly bad feelings about this bike is due to the seeming insensitivity of Honda in continuing the Rebel model name while quite obviously discontinuing the 30 year old Rebel motorcycle line. Had they simply introduced all new bobberlicious 300 and 500 models and called them macaroni, none of the old Rebel owners would have batted an eyelash, other than to shed a tear for the passing of the very long in the tooth Rebel whose demise could hardly have been unexpected.

2004 Rebel 250, 2003 BMW K1200GT (roadburner), 2004 BMW R1200GS(all purpose),
1973 Norton Interstate (in a box in the basement)
1968 Triumph Bonneville
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post #372 of 412 Old 05-11-2017, 10:12 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by CueBaller View Post
All relevant points, but I doubt Honda (or any manufacturer, for that matter) takes into account "the box" when designing their motorcycles. You're allowed to put a foot down if needed in the real world, as well as touch/cross lines, or maybe not even try to execute a u-turn in the first place... there are other ways to turn around, if needed.
Unfortunately in the real world, whether you take the BRC or take the test at the DMV to get your license, you still have to execute the box. In the real world when putting a foot down at either facility it's an automatic fail. Coincidentally, if you get caught riding without the license as a result of that failure your bike can be impounded.

Putting your foot down for such maneuvers after the license is acquired may be legally acceptable, but it's still poor riding technique nonetheless.

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So referring to my previous point, a beginner starting out on this Rebel will not be hampered by its slightly larger turning radius, because this is what they're learning on... future bikes with better turning radii will be easier, as opposed to starting easy and switching to something more difficult.
By that logic you might as well start out on a Hayabusa. Or an 800 pound touring rig. Or a long fork chopper. Yes, that's an extreme take on said logic, but the same logic still applies nonetheless.

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As to the other poster's mention of hate above, and your statement of fact and physics... I'm fairly certain the point was that you've taken a single statement from a nearly 6 month old article as a way of making yet another negative statement about this bike.
Your certainty will now be crushed.

I didn't know or care how old the article was, I just read something on a facebook page about the use of a raked tree on the bikes and did a google search to validate what I'd seen on facebook. After all facebook postings tend to be anything but factual, more so considering how the groups lend themselves to the lowest common denominator.

As for "yet another negative comment" --- I'm fairly certain you've not been paying attention to my posts.

Sure, I've been rather vocal about the recycling of the name along with the lack of color and/or chrome, but that's it. In fact I've even posted several times along the way how I'd like to like the bikes if not for those two bits, both on this board and the R3 board. Here's one of many from this very thread:

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Originally Posted by Shadow Shack View Post
I've said it since I opened with it: if the bike had some color --- thus drifting away from all the other bikes out there it was cloned from (see opening sentence) --- I could warm up to it. I might even buy one.
Furthermore, do a little more hunting and you'll see many posts I've made regarding raked trees. I will maintain my stance on the "beginnerability" of a raked tree, but the simple fact is as a seasoned rider and a knowledgeable builder, I am a fan of them.

In other words, I might have found something else I like about the bike. Chew on that for a bit and let me know how your certainty tastes...

"Ride Safe, Chop Safer" Motorcycles are not unsafe. However; they are extremely unforgiving of inattention, incompetence, ignorance, and stupidity.
Dismantling, sawzalling, and rattle canning does not make a bobber.
Those are STEPS toward customizing, not customizing unto itself.
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post #373 of 412 Old 05-11-2017, 10:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Geodude1613 View Post
However...although I'm no marketing genius, it seems to me that using the Rebel name seems like a good marketing move. After all, it generates more discussion than it would have by using a new name, and capitalizes on the branding (in a certain way).
A better marketing move would be taking a page out of Honda's mid-90's marketing of cruisers. Well, it's not THEIR page as many other vehicle manufacturers rely on it, but it's a better move nonetheless. For the sake of this discussion I'll simply relate it in Honda-speak.

What I would do for positive marketing of this (or any other) bike would be to offer it in two different trims: Standard and Deluxe.

The Standard would be the basic matte black bike with everything blacked out that they offer now. The Deluxe, at a higher price, would be the same bike offered in other colors and some chrome. Then make ABS an option for either trim. Now you're marketing the bike to BOTH crowds instead of drawing a line between the two.

Unfortunately for Honda they've made too many marketing blunders over the past decade or so which has lead to them losing their former 80's & 90's neck-and-neck 25% each total US market share to today's 35% for HD and 15% for Honda (with significant gains going to Kawasaki, Yamaha, and even failing Suzuki). Alienating 30+ years worth of customers from that more prosperous era is definitely not a good marketing move.

"Ride Safe, Chop Safer" Motorcycles are not unsafe. However; they are extremely unforgiving of inattention, incompetence, ignorance, and stupidity.
Dismantling, sawzalling, and rattle canning does not make a bobber.
Those are STEPS toward customizing, not customizing unto itself.
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post #374 of 412 Old 05-11-2017, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Sconda View Post
When I hit this lottery, I'm going to buy two of them and make Shadow shack ride around the desert on one with me. 😂😂😂😂
Well that's one way to add some color to them, they'll go from matte black to matte dusty tan.

On a serious note I would not turn down a ride on one. There aren't many bikes I've turned down for a ride, only the ones that are dismantled/sawzalled/rattle-canned and the other end of the spectrum of showbikes I could never afford to fix if something went awry.

"Ride Safe, Chop Safer" Motorcycles are not unsafe. However; they are extremely unforgiving of inattention, incompetence, ignorance, and stupidity.
Dismantling, sawzalling, and rattle canning does not make a bobber.
Those are STEPS toward customizing, not customizing unto itself.
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post #375 of 412 Old 05-11-2017, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Geodude1613 View Post
Make sure we see a picture of that! 🤣
Snap away, I'll be wearing a FF with tinted visor for plausible deniability.
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"Ride Safe, Chop Safer" Motorcycles are not unsafe. However; they are extremely unforgiving of inattention, incompetence, ignorance, and stupidity.
Dismantling, sawzalling, and rattle canning does not make a bobber.
Those are STEPS toward customizing, not customizing unto itself.
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post #376 of 412 Old 05-12-2017, 02:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Shack View Post
https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/201...ok-fast-facts/



Since this is a raked tree then it's not aimed at beginners. A raked tree creates all sorts of awkward maneuvering traits that you won't find on a conventional set of trees that match the fork angle. Also noteworthy, since a raked tree decreases trail, that makes it less stable unless it had a significant trail prior to the tree being raked. Granted the advertised 4.3" trail parallels what the 250 Rebel sports so that's not an issue, it still has the wheel turning on a different axis than the trees courtesy of the new offset...and that takes some getting used to at low speeds.

See the hi-def pic here and note how the forks are at a different andgle than the steering stem:

https://powersports.honda.com/Assets...l500_Style.jpg
Mentioned in this video, the new rebel has good steering and handling... Looks like that's going to be the case whether for a new rider or otherwise...

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post #377 of 412 Old 05-12-2017, 02:32 AM Thread Starter
 
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I never said it wasn't going to have bad steering or handling issues, I even mentioned it would be identical to the 250 since the frame geometry measurements are the same.

What I did say is the raked tree creates certain effects that wouldn't be found on the conventional tree. Go back and read what I wrote on that matter in the following post with the pics.

"Ride Safe, Chop Safer" Motorcycles are not unsafe. However; they are extremely unforgiving of inattention, incompetence, ignorance, and stupidity.
Dismantling, sawzalling, and rattle canning does not make a bobber.
Those are STEPS toward customizing, not customizing unto itself.
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post #378 of 412 Old 05-12-2017, 03:02 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Shadow Shack View Post
I never said it wasn't going to have bad steering or handling issues, I even mentioned it would be identical to the 250 since the frame geometry measurements are the same.

What I did say is the raked tree creates certain effects that wouldn't be found on the conventional tree. Go back and read what I wrote on that matter in the following post with the pics.

No worries. Sometimes when you expound on the subject of the new models there reads a "subtle" undertone of doom. ...Just offering a little light in all the darkness.
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post #379 of 412 Old 05-12-2017, 10:25 AM Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, well...Honda has spent the past 10+ years alienating the customers with their blandwagon of offerings so I tend to do that.

Seriously, let's look at what they have to offer in the way of cruisers for 2017:



The Fury is the only model that appeals to those of us that helped vault Honda's sales in the 80s & 90s. Sadly the sibling "1300 Customs" line disappeared this year, meaning it won't be long before this drops out of the line-up. Still, it has its faults: leftover VTX era "plastic everywhere" on a flagship model. All that ABS wiring on the cleaned up steering head. Weird mufflers. Still, the overall lines are appealing as is the price.

Next up we have this...this...this...exactly what the hell is this?!?



Is this a recumbent bicycle with a motor? A mech-warrior scooter? Something that we might have seen in a short 4-6 issue Japanimated Manga comic book series? This...thing confuses me on so many levels. If anything this makes a good argument for resurrecting the PC800 (go ahead, google it).

Next up:



The "Phantom" is the sole surviving Shadow, even the sibling Aero and Spirit are gone (from which this amalgam originates from...it's a Spirit with an Aero front end given the black-out treatment) as is the RS. The only surviving chrome is on the leftover Spirit exhaust system.

And these new 300 & 500 CB variants which this thread is dedicated to. That's it.

Not listed for 2017 but still available as leftover models...



The CTX makes just a little more sense than the NM4 above, at least it's readily identifiable as a motorcycle. I'm not sure how it gets a cruiser designation, but nonetheless it's still on the weird side.

And then there's this:



The aforementioned not-Valkyrie from which I blatantly stole the name for these new Hondas. At least the not-Valk retains the original Valk DNA though...it's still a Gold Wing mill offered in a cruiser package. Unfortunately unlike the original Valkyrie that built an entire frame and bodywork around the GL engine, these new models are merely stripped down Gold Wings.

Ditto for the F6B:



Now compare that line-up to the late 90's hey day of Honda cruisers when Honda was neck & neck with HD at 25% each for total US market share:

250 Rebel
600 Shadow available in two trims
750 Shadow ACE available in two trims
750 Shadow Spirit
750 Magna
1100 Shadow Spirit
1100 Shadow ACE
1100 Shadow Aero
1100 Shadow Sabre
1100 ACE Tourer
1500 Valkyrie (and Valk Tourer & Valk Interstate)

13 models to choose from versus today's five plus the three leftovers. With the obvious preference for American styled bikes dripping in chrome dominating the US market, is it any wonder why Honda has fallen so far behind at the aforementioned 35% HD/15% Honda representations?
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"Ride Safe, Chop Safer" Motorcycles are not unsafe. However; they are extremely unforgiving of inattention, incompetence, ignorance, and stupidity.
Dismantling, sawzalling, and rattle canning does not make a bobber.
Those are STEPS toward customizing, not customizing unto itself.
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post #380 of 412 Old 05-12-2017, 11:10 AM
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One of the things the reviewers talked about was how the drum brake on the Rebel wasn't nearly as good as the newer bike's rear rotor. I don't know what Rebels they were riding, but I've never had an issue with the brakes on any of mine. Locking up the rear wheel really isn't hard to do.

Keepin' all the left over parts. Gonna use 'em to build another bike!

'01 & '09 Rebel 250, '06 Ninja 250, '89 VN 750
Putting your bike year and model in your signature helps others help you!
Here's how: https://www.hondarebelforum.com/f19/...re-121087.html
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