star_deceiver - 1979 cm185t - Page 2

JunkyardDog · 02-15-2010, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Shack

There are a lot of models Honda should/could bring back. But when you consider the fact that the "bigger is better" crowd wasn't interested in their marketing of an 1800...

That brings up something that could be argued about forever. I would absolutely LOVE for manufacturers to bring back a lot of old bikes and cars, at reasonable prices, using old technology (no electronics or FI), but built with modern engineering and manufacturing methods. There wasn't anything wrong with the old designs, they just weren't as well built as they could have been.

You really can't do that with cars, other than kit cars, because of all the DOT and EPA BS, but it is still feasible with bikes. I wish Honda would bring back the original SOHC CB750, but if they did, it would be a poorly made mostly plastic copy, loaded with electronics, that cost a fortune, sort of like VW did with the Bug. I love the old air cooled rear engined bugs, and always will, but don't have the slightest desire to own a "New Beetle", just because it vaguely resembles the original. It has lost all the "soul and substance" of the original. I would have bought Kawasaki's W650, but they simply priced it too high. There is no reason why a 40 year old design should cost that much. All the R&D has already been done, and the tooling is simple, and there are no super expensive parts. But they tried to charge heavily for the "looks", and lost their pants. I'm sure that bike would have been a good seller at a reasonable price.

And while I never had any interest in one, I never did understand why the VTX1800 didn't sell, the other 3 Japanese manufacturers still have large displacement v-twins in their lineup that are selling well. Of course, part of the attraction of Yamaha's Roadstar and Kawasaki's Vulcan 2000 are the pushrod engines, ala Harley.

I also like pushrod OHV engines, but for a different reason. They eliminate the internal cam chain, the most failure prone part of any engine that has one. And anyone who thinks they are outdated should tell that to NASCAR and the NHRA. Jerry.

**Shadow Shack** · 02-15-2010, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JunkyardDog

And while I never had any interest in one, I never did understand why the VTX1800 didn't sell, the other 3 Japanese manufacturers still have large displacement v-twins in their lineup that are selling well.

It was quite simple, actually. Honda did what they do best: piss off their loyal customers. The VTX1800 debuted with much aplomb and was well received at first. I actually liked it myself, although I didn't care for all the tonnage associated with it. And Honda promised all sorts of in house goodies for it, in terms like "expect to find variety bordering domestic brands" or other such hints of "anything you want". VTX owners waited.

And waited.

And waited.

Right about the time everyone gave up on this promised line of in house goods (which took 6-8 months), two things happened, and not necessarily in this order:

1> Cobra beat them to the punch.

2> Honda announces two "new" VTX1800 "models": the 1800 R and 1800S. Now keep in mind these were billed as new models. People went to the showrooms to see them and they were nothing more than a VTX1800Cs sporting new fenders and exhaust on the R model, and the S model added laced wheels to the R model.

Then the 1300 came out, billed as a replacement to the 1100 Aero (quite possibly the most visually appealing "American retro-styled bike" ever to come out of Japan). Except it failed on replacing the Aero's good looks, instead it gave us (here it comes), EXACT CLONES of the 1800R & S in 1300cc guise.

And year after year following that formula, all we got from Honda in the way of new models were new rehashings of 1800 and 1300 clones sporting new fenders, pipes, and wheels. There was the N model, cloning the Rune fenders onto the R model. There was the F model, rehashing the original C look with clipped fenders. Then there was the ultimate insult: the <ahem> "Tourer" </ahem>, which was nothing more than an R model boasting the entire line of VTX in house accessories (windshield, backrest, and saddlebags) added on at the factory instead of by the customer. And furthermore, it was too little/too late, as everyone else already had a big inch tourer on the market for some time before Honda finally got one out (yep, it took six years for them to add their own saddlebags to an existing model jsut to compete with the Kawi Nomad and Road Star Silverado etc).

And somewhere along the way, the 750 Shadow adopted this formual too. Honda nixxed the popular 750 ACE in favor of the new Aero, which retained the same engine but dumbed down the ACE's performance by removing one of the two carburetors and further hampered performance with a shaft drive. The 2nd gen/single carb VLX 600 ended up being a faster bike. And then the 750 Spirit got replaced by the "Spaero" aka 2nd gen Spirit, which was nothing more than an Aero with new pipes, wheels, and fenders.

Saturation killed the VTX1800, along with their $15K+ HD grade pricetags. Rather than offer us actual new and different models, we got rehashings of the same thing over and over again while everyone else was actually offering new models. That, and the fact that Honda also nixxed anything that outperformed (and consequently outsold) the VTX to make it their fastest by default: the Valkyrie, Magna, and 750 Nighthawk. Consequently, every other big inch cruiser from everyone else blew the 1800 away, right down to the itty bitty 1130cc V-Rod that retained a single pin crank (unlike the 1800's dual pin crank). Honda couldn't nix those as easily...

In the end, customers with $15K flocked elsewhere for better/faster bikes, while those with $10K or under budgets opted for the 1300 or the VTX-ified 750 Shadows.

As for the aforementioned styling saturation, you decide. In fact, it might be quite the challenge to identify each of these "unique models" (something Honda sales people were stumped by in their own showrooms):

**rebelCAFE** · 02-15-2010, 11:43 PM

my uncle has a 1300 VTX. he let me ride it one time, and let me tell you, it was boring. the ride was so smooth and quiet i almost fell asleep. i know alot of people prefer a smooth ride, but there is a point where the ride can be too smooth. his bike was.

**star_deceiver** · 03-07-2010, 01:58 PM

I bought the custom rectifier here: http://www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/index.html

The original one died and I really didn't feel like paying over $100 for a new one. So after tax and duty, the one I bought cost only $33. That and the lights are now brighter and the signals actually work plus the battery isn't swelling up!!! Oh, and no sasquatch... although one of the gas attendants may have been related.....

I'm from Vernon, BC. (apparently some of my friends/coworkers thought I was nuts for riding it to Red Deer, AB)

The sticker on the tank was there when I bought it... and it's not hurting anything so it can stay!

And as for Hondas "styling saturation"... From the pics in the last post, I see 12 almost identical bikes of the same personallity, and nothing I'd personally care to shell out big $$$ for!

**Shadow Shack** · 03-07-2010, 05:40 PM

The sad thing about the saturation: even with all the designations and descriptions I listed with the pic, most people would find it quite challenging to match the designation with its respective picture and get all twelve correct.

Including Honda sales people.

**Rainman** · 08-19-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by star_deceiver

I bought the custom rectifier here: Oregon motorcycle Parts Home Page

The original one died and I really didn't feel like paying over $100 for a new one. So after tax and duty, the one I bought cost only $33. That and the lights are now brighter and the signals actually work plus the battery isn't swelling up!!! Oh, and no sasquatch... although one of the gas attendants may have been related.....

I'm from Vernon, BC. (apparently some of my friends/coworkers thought I was nuts for riding it to Red Deer, AB)

The sticker on the tank was there when I bought it... and it's not hurting anything so it can stay!

And as for Hondas "styling saturation"... From the pics in the last post, I see 12 almost identical bikes of the same personallity, and nothing I'd personally care to shell out big $$$ for!

That is quite the hike you made!! Kudos to you! ......anyways I have ridden almost every province here in Canada and The rockies are some of the best places in the world to ride (IMO)

....and I am pretty sure i saw Sasquatch riding through the Shuswaps on a Harley a couple years back!

**Rainman** · 08-19-2010, 03:29 PM

**rebel without a clue** · 08-19-2010, 05:06 PM

I have a 1980 Honda CM200 and it also has a 6 volt system. That is why I am going to sell it. Simply too difficult to source 6 volt parts.

**star_deceiver** · 09-25-2010, 05:40 PM

The headlight is the big one. I use a 30w/30w universal, it's wedged in with foam and costs about $25. The stock 36.5w/35w light costs upwards of $85 3 years ago... and was next to impossible to find. Simple 6 volt flashers turn up at swap meets easily enough if you know what you're looking for. Tractor parts stores and classic car shops can also bee good in tracking down parts. The battery I use is the same that's found in emergency lights and are a dime a dozen (relativly) at battery direct! Small lights are still sold at some big box part stores.

I was wondering if anyone would have picked up those eyes staring down from that tree.... Watch out just south of Field, BC...

**star_deceiver** · 12-12-2010, 11:01 PM

In the fall I went back to stock sprockets/gear ratio, 15-35. Replaced the points. Rolled over 20000kms (23300kms now). Here's a few Summer/Fall pics!!!

Our Communities

Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Marine Communities

Honda Rebel News Delivered to your Email!