Switching From Synthetic to Dino ??

**earlbear** · 04-10-2010, 09:32 AM

Can you switch from synthetic back to dino oil ? Thanks

**flitecontrol** · 04-10-2010, 11:12 AM

Yes, not a problem at all. Switch as many times as you like. Just keep the oil changed.

**twocoolgliders** · 04-10-2010, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earlbear

Can you switch from synthetic back to dino oil ? Thanks

As flightcontrol said, its OK to switch form Synth to mineral and the other way.

Where this "do not switch stuff" comes from is back in the day, you could get "detergent" oil and "non-detergent oil". I think the true term for detergent oil is "ashless disperstant".

IF you ran an engine for any length of time on the non detergent, and then put in detergent oil, the detergent oil would try to clean up all the gunk in the engine and cause it to clog up the works! If you stayed with the non detergent, the gunk built up in the engine but pretty much stayed put without too much problem.

I don't think you can find motor oil for cars these days that is not detergent type. You can find sometimes "straight" SAE 30 oil.......without additives at all, but you don't want to run your engine on this stuff......

We do however use straight, pure, mineral oil to break in airplane engines for the first 50 hours, then switch to multi viscosity, semi synthetic, ashless dispersant oil. 50 hours is not enought to build up too much gunk.

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**flitecontrol** · 04-10-2010, 09:51 PM

Absolutely correct on the detergent/non detergent oils. A guy came in for an oil change and I asked if he wanted detergent or non-detergent oil. He said detergent. He appeared drunk, so I asked again to be sure and he verified detergent oil. Two days later, he returned sober and was very upset. He had been using non-detergent oil, and the detergent oil had cleaned the accumulated gunk in his engine. It was smoking like crazy.

While mineral oil is made from crude oil, it is not suitable as a crankcase lubricant in our bikes.

**twocoolgliders** · 04-10-2010, 11:04 PM

While mineral oil is made from crude oil, it is not suitable as a crankcase lubricant in our bikes.[/QUOTE]

Yes.......what I call "straight" mineral oil...........

Actually what we use IS mineral oil, but with additives, for multi viscosity, and detergent, etc.

I sometimes say mineral oil vs synthetic oil........I really mean the "treated" mineral oil. Otherwise I try to say "straight" mineral oil.

Cookie

**flitecontrol** · 04-11-2010, 11:03 PM

Think most folks refer to it as "conventional" or "dino" oil rather than mineral oil. Just trying to avoid confusion, given the fact that there are food grade mineral oils that could be used in cosmetics (or for removing same) but you wouldn't want to use them in a vehicle.

JunkyardDog · 04-12-2010, 07:32 PM

First, it is ok to switch from any oil to pretty much any other oil as long as the oil is suitable for use in your engine.

The "dino" thing is totally misleading, first of all, we really have no idea where oil really came from, and don't know if dinosaurs had anything to do with it at all. If they did, it wasn't just dinosaurs, it would have been all organic material around at the time, including plants. The fact is that ALL oil is pumped out of the ground, it is during the refining process where you wind up with all different kinds of stuff. I'm not going into all the details here, there is plenty of good information online that explains the difference between "conventional" oil, and "synthetic" oil.

Non detergent oil is still made, but is not safe to use in an internal combustion engine, except under very unusual circumstances, none of which involve motorcycles or cars.

AS for whether you can use detergent oil in an old engine that has had non detergent oil used in it for a long time, the answer is both yes and no. It depends just how dirty the engine is. If it is really bad, you should, on a car engine anyway, drop the pan and clean it out, I have found oil pans with 2" of sludge in them. You sure don't want that stuff floating around your engine, destroying the bearings and scoring the cylinder walls.

OTOH, I have used repeated oil changes, like once every 2 weeks for 6 months or so, with a cheap detergent oil, like Walmart SuperTech, to clean out engines that were dirty inside, the first several times the new oil would get dirty in just a few days, but would gradually start lasting longer. After getting it fairly clean, I would switch to a decent brand of single weight 40w or 50w oil, sometimes even using STP oil treatment on top of that. The thick oil provided a much higher load bearing surface for the worn bearings, and a much better seal for the worn cylinders and rings, which reduced both wear and oil consumption considerably. I've seen engines done this way last another 100,000 miles.

The 2 main things that will make your engine last longer, are change the oil as often as you reasonably can, and use the heaviest oil it is safe to use in it, based on temperatures. I recommend 20w50 oil for ALL motorcycle engines, unless it is simply too cold for it, and it is completely safe to use it down to 40 degrees F. Any place where the temp is consistently 50 degrees F or higher, I definitely recommend 20w50, and in the Rebel, I recommend changing it every 1000-1500 miles. IMO, it does no good to change it more often than 1000 miles, Even the cheap Walmart stuff will last that long, and 1500 miles is reaching the limit where it becomes too contaminated to continue to use, even if you used expensive oil. I have different recommendations for oil for different types of engines, but those are mine for the Rebel 250, which holds only 1.6 qts., has no oil filter, is air cooled, and is small and runs at high revs most of the time. Jerry.

**twocoolgliders** · 04-12-2010, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JunkyardDog

First, it is ok to switch from any oil to pretty much any other oil as long as the oil is suitable for use in your engine.

The "dino" thing is totally misleading, first of all, we really have no idea where oil really came from, and don't know if dinosaurs had anything to do with it at all. If they did, it wasn't just dinosaurs, it would have been all organic material around at the time, including plants. The fact is that ALL oil is pumped out of the ground, it is during the refining process where you wind up with all different kinds of stuff. I'm not going into all the details here, there is plenty of good information online that explains the difference between "conventional" oil, and "synthetic" oil.

Non detergent oil is still made, but is not safe to use in an internal combustion engine, except under very unusual circumstances, none of which involve motorcycles or cars.

AS for whether you can use detergent oil in an old engine that has had non detergent oil used in it for a long time, the answer is both yes and no. It depends just how dirty the engine is. If it is really bad, you should, on a car engine anyway, drop the pan and clean it out, I have found oil pans with 2" of sludge in them. You sure don't want that stuff floating around your engine, destroying the bearings and scoring the cylinder walls.

OTOH, I have used repeated oil changes, like once every 2 weeks for 6 months or so, with a cheap detergent oil, like Walmart SuperTech, to clean out engines that were dirty inside, the first several times the new oil would get dirty in just a few days, but would gradually start lasting longer. After getting it fairly clean, I would switch to a decent brand of single weight 40w or 50w oil, sometimes even using STP oil treatment on top of that. The thick oil provided a much higher load bearing surface for the worn bearings, and a much better seal for the worn cylinders and rings, which reduced both wear and oil consumption considerably. I've seen engines done this way last another 100,000 miles.

The 2 main things that will make your engine last longer, are change the oil as often as you reasonably can, and use the heaviest oil it is safe to use in it, based on temperatures. I recommend 20w50 oil for ALL motorcycle engines, unless it is simply too cold for it, and it is completely safe to use it down to 40 degrees F. Any place where the temp is consistently 50 degrees F or higher, I definitely recommend 20w50, and in the Rebel, I recommend changing it every 1000-1500 miles. IMO, it does no good to change it more often than 1000 miles, Even the cheap Walmart stuff will last that long, and 1500 miles is reaching the limit where it becomes too contaminated to continue to use, even if you used expensive oil. I have different recommendations for oil for different types of engines, but those are mine for the Rebel 250, which holds only 1.6 qts., has no oil filter, is air cooled, and is small and runs at high revs most of the time. Jerry.

All good advice........

Just a couple of notes........the Rebel actually holds 1.9 qts.....but you can only drain 1.6 through the drain plug, so .3 of old oil stays in there......(10 ounces)

Having more oil capacity might be nice, but probably unnecessary in the Rebel. More capacity would allow you to let the level go lower without potential problem........but we all check our level every day, right?

More capacity will also help in engine cooling. The so called "air cooled" Rebel engine is essentially "oil cooled" too. More capacity would let the oil cool off longer before it goes "round the engine again.

I have not heard of overheating engines on Rebels as a problem.

As for "dino" oil.....I get a kick out of that term. When I was a kid, they had "Sinclair" gasoline around here. Sinclair's logo was "dino" the dinosaur. Once, as a free gift for filling, up my dad got an inflatable Dino pool toy for me....It was way cool for a 4 year old!

Actually crude oil comes from plant matter, not dinosaurs!

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