JunkyardDog

Actually, though the proportions are different, any 750 Shadow is considerably larger than the 454. The 600VLX is a lot smaller than the Shadow 750, but is still bigger than the 454, and about two feet longer.

I have parked my Vulcan 750 next to numerous Harleys, (not including baggers and touring bikes) and it looks just as big, but it is also shorter. The Shadow Aero 750 is a fairly large bike.

The VLX600 would be a really nice bike for me, but I cannot justify buying one when I already have the Vulcan 750. It would give me a lot more room to stretch out than the Rebel. And it's one major flaw, tube type tires, is somewhat compensated for by the fact that you can get an aftermarket bolt on centerstand for it.


IMO, no 750 class bike makes a good two up bike. Even the 1500cc-2000cc cruisers suffer in this regard. Most passengers are going to be miserable on ANY bike. All motorcycles work way better as single person vehicles. If you really want to carry a passenger on a regular basis, my opinion is that the 1500 Goldwing is the best bike to do it on. That will probably be my next bike after (or maybe before) the Vulcan wears out. I'm reaching the age now where comfort is becoming more and more important. Jerry.



Edit: Actually, back in the good old days, when motorcycles were still actually motorcycles, and had wide, long, and flat seats, bikes like the early CB750, KZ900, Yamaha XS650 standard, and Suzuki GS750 standard did fairly well at carrying a passenger in relative comfort, relative meaning relative to any of todays 650cc-900cc bikes. Back then there were no cruisers, sportbikes, and (except for the Harley FLH) touring bikes. I realize a lot of people here may be too young to remember these bikes, I for one sure wish they would make them again, but unfortunately, not enough people feel that way.

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regularman

When I get my 454 back together I will compare to the new shadow 750. Maybe it is longer but is seems lower somehow. The wife and I have rode thousands of miles on the 454 in sunshine and rain but it was back when we both were younger and smaller. The king/queen style seat seems to be the best for us both. I can't believe that 600 only puts out 30 something HP. The 454 puts out 50 and I could only get 110 mph out of it with speedo corrected with a larger front tire so it was correct as tested. If that 600 is getting to 110 mph then it has to have more horses than that and 60mpg seems awefully good for that kind of power.

Man, I remember when I bought my 454 back in 1986 like it was yesterday. I tested all kinds of bikes before I bought it. I tested the new 883 evolution sportster and it was a let down. It was so much smoother than the old XLs but it was a dog with so much less power than the kickstart xl1000s that I had ridden before. I did come very close to getting the vn750, but the 454 was 1200 cheaper and lighter and almost as much power and was quicker in the 1/4 mile.
I read all the brochures and stuff. Wife and I test set on a vn750 later on and the seat gives more room than the 454 but the rear seat does not kick up as high with as much cushion and the seat felt less firm in both positions. You know what is worth some real money now is the few vn700s that were imported from Japan for 1985. All the later ones were made in Nebaraska or somewhere. I had someone send me a list in the mail 2 years ago or so of japanese bikes that are rare and people are looking for. I know a guy that had a v45 honda magna that was in perfect shape (this guy was a purist) and sold it to some guy that wanted it for a museum or something and payed him over 5k for it. That is almost twice what it sold for in 84 or whatever year it was.

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Shadow Shack

I'm guessing it was the new 750 Shadow RS? Looks kind of like a Sportster?

That being the case, Honda was paying attention to the XR1200's popularity in Europe last year. With a quick look at their own (paltry) line up of cruisers, there was only ONE available model that offered decent ground clearance, short wheelbase, light weight, and mid-glide controls:


The CMX-250 Rebel


Yep. Technically they're forward controls, being located near the apex of the downtube...but considering the average rider's stance, the feet end up in what would otherwise be a mid-glide "position". It's certainly not the same feet-forward stance you'd find on the VLX.

And while I have no qualms riding my Rebel like it's a sportbike, the sixteen pony motor constantly serves to remind me that it ISN'T a sportbike. So if Honda was going to be serious about offering a spirited cruiser ride, it would have to be a platform with a little more oomph.

The VTX was out of the question, too much tonnage. Add to that, the 1300 Stars are already outgunning them as it is. Too little too late to make such improvements there.

Fury? Forget about it, they just spent all that trouble making a VTX into a longbike!

That left the 750 line. Not a bad place to start, moreso considering it's an available platform rather than a ground up design. But first things first, gotta ditch the cumbersome shaft final drive. So they took the 750 Spirit C2 platform and re-reverse engineered it for a chain drive, just like the first generation SS750 had. No brainstorming required there, it was a simple matter to pull out the old blueprints. Derake it a bit (from 34º & 6.2" trail to 32º & 5.3" trail), shorten the swingarm a tad, all of which shortens the wheelbase while raising ground clearance (4" shorter and 2" higher), and relocate the footpegs further back.

Swap in a more slender tire (150 rear to the Spirit's 160) for ease in maneuvering, swap in a lower capacity peanut tank (0.9 gallon less @ 2.8, for another seven pounds off via less fuel) and the new wet weight is down by nearly 30 pounds to a more crispy 507.

Voila! A Sportster-esque Shadow. Which, ironically enough, is what the original 2000-07 750 Spirit was; albeit lower and longer.

And typical for Honda, they had to find a way to screw it up. Nope, it couldn't be the perfect bike. SOooooo...let's see, what can we do? AHA! Let's crop a flat fender and make it NOT fit worth a hoot. But wait, there's something else we can foul up too: let's raise the MSRP to the same bar as the real Sportster too.

Wait a few years for a used one, and pick up a Phantom rear fender off E-Bay.


More narrow, perhaps...but wheelbase and overall lengths & heights are pretty close across the board. And that's comparing the Aero and Phantom...the Spirit and RS are narrow rides too, so the margin dwindles further there.

The VLX is considerably lighter than the 750 line at 476# wet...seems to me if they really wanted a spirited cruiser the VLX could have been ressurected with the 700cc TransAlp/DeauVille/DN-01 mill (a motor whose roots started with the VLX motor...the original XL600V TransAlp began life in the very same 583cc guise albeit with a dual pin crankshaft VLX motor and hotter cams).

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JunkyardDog

The 454 is a nice bike, and it is fast. I had an '86 that I bought new. I liked it's style better than the 450 Rebel back then. The 454 was the little brother to the Vulcan 750, I bought a new one of those in '93, and proceeded to rack up over 80,000 miles on it, decided I wanted something totally different, so I traded it for an '01 KLR650. I kept that less than a year, decided I didn't like it, and traded it for another brand new '02 Vulcan 750, which currently has 43,000 miles on it. It is definitely much bigger and heavier than the 454, and has everything, shaft drive, tubeless tires on cast wheels, liquid cooling, dual plug heads, four overhead cams with hydraulic lifters, full instrumentation, and a CENTERSTAND. IMO, it has the same basic look as the 454. They both came out in '85.


IMO, the original 454 was and is twice the bike that the current 500 Vulcan is, and has all the things the Vulcan doesn't, like cast wheels and tubeless tires, a sissy bar/backrest, belt drive, full instrumentation, and a CENTERSTAND, making it a much better bike for real world use. Style is a subjective thing, but I like the looks of the 454 way better than the current Vulcan 500. But what it all comes down to is, what do you do if you have a flat tire on the Vulcan 500, or any of the current crop of cruisers, that have tube tires, and no CENTERSTAND? I've always said that after an engine and wheels, a centerstand is the most important part of a motorcycle.

Todays cruisers seem to be made more to look at than to ride, and it is obvious that the manufacturers did away with everything they could, and made most of the rest of it out of plastic, to save money and increase profit margins.

My main issue with the Rebel, is that it has tube tires and no centerstand, but fortunately, it is small enough and light enough that I was able to improvise an emergency use only bolt on support, that when used in conjunction with the stock sidestand, will get the wheels off the ground with no danger of the bike falling over. I did that before I ever ventured beyond the city limits with it. Jerry.

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Shadow Shack

And therein lies the paradox.

If ever a cruiser there was that didn't need a centerstand (need mind you, not that it doesn't benefit from having one), it's the 750 Vulcan. In addition to the tubeless tires that won't benefit from the centerstand for repair (plug and reinflate), you also don't need the centerstand for chain maintenance on the 750 Vulcan...



Speaking of "throwback technology" that works...I'd like to see the return of a kicker pedal on today's bikes. I've worn myself out on occasion push starting a 476 pound VLX when the battery craps out, I wouldn't even want to contemplate that on today's 600+ pound beasts.

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regularman

Kick is nice to have when you need it. Weak battery and you stall it in traffic, you can kick and get going. Lots of hills here where I live and you are as like to be going up hill as down. My twinstar has both kick and electric and it does come in handy. The real combo on a big engine bike was what was an aftermarket thing for the old kick start v twins to start them easy, it was a thing that screwed in the spark plug hole and then you used a smaller plug and it released compression on one head to make it easier to stomp. These were more common on 2 strokes to keep them from kicking back and throwing you from the bike.

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rebelCAFE

this thread interested me because my stepmom was trying to get me to trade her my 09 rebel for her 02 vlx. but, i have been there and done that. i have had bigger bikes before and am just not into it anymore. plus my bike is still almost new, compared to hers that has like 20,000 miles on it. if i rode from coast to coast i might get a bigger bike again, but i dont. so i'm good with the rebel. plus, her vlx gets like 45 mpg, my rebel gets 70. my dadgum escort will get 35 mpg, so, i think i will let her keep her bike and i'll keep mine. ride the rebel man, ride the rebel.

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regularman

I thought that 60mpg was not truthful. I mean I could get close to 90 from my twinstar if I drove 45 mph all the time, but its low 70s on the interstate and average about 80 back and forth to work. 75 or so to work and back right now due to the cold weather taking more gas.

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Shadow Shack

A VLX of any vintage is fully capable of 55-60mpg regularly, but it really depends on how you ride it. If you're tooling around at 45mph in third gear (like a lot of VLX owners tend to do), yeah...you're not gonna do so well.

With an easy throttle hand, a 99+ single carb VLX can hit 70mpg. Maybe not everytime/all the time, but you can definitely see it more than once. In other words, if you can break 80mpg on a Rebel you should be able to translate those same riding habits to the (99+ single carb) VLX and get pretty close to 70 on a regular basis.

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rebelCAFE

yeah, but who is going to putter around on a 600 motorcycle. nobody does. that is why those factory mpg numbers are such a joke. i mean my rebel is suppose to get about 80 or so, but riding in the real world, that is not going to happen. her vlx gets like 45-50 no matter how she drives it. been there and done that. plus my rebel will do whatever i want it to do, and get better mileage in the process. im just not in a hurry anymore. if you want to get there quicker, leave the house earlier.

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