250 vs 450 - Page 2

JunkyardDog · 07-05-2010, 09:57 AM

I'm going by the 450s I find on Craigslist. Mostly junk that will require a lot of work. I looked at one with 38,000 miles on it, it was all there, but was in rough condition, and was leaking oil around the base gasket. They wanted $2400 for it.

From every source I can find, '09 is indeed the last year for the Rebel. I doubt Honda will sell another small bike, smaller than the Shadow 750. It would just cost too much to equip it with all the modern electronic crap that seems to be required on bikes these days. Kawasaki no longer sells a small street bike, look for Yamaha and Suzuki to drop theirs too. Honda no longer sells anything except super high dollar stuff anymore, other than the left over Rebels, which they are just trying to clear out. If you want a new Rebel, now is the time.

I find it flat out amazing that the cheapest new Harley now costs considerably less the the cheapest new Honda. Not saying Harleys are better, but at that price difference, I would definitely buy one over the Honda. As far as resale value, Honda 750 Shadows and Harley Sportsters seem to be holding their resale value about the same now, neither one very well.

What I find amazing is the price of older sportbikes. Used too you couldn't give away a 10 year old sport bike, because it was totally outdated. Now 10 year old sport bikes are the most expensive used bikes out there, surpassing even Harleys. Jerry.

**GearJammer** · 07-05-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JunkyardDog

I'm going by the 450s I find on Craigslist. Mostly junk that will require a lot of work. I looked at one with 38,000 miles on it, it was all there, but was in rough condition, and was leaking oil around the base gasket. They wanted $2400 for it.

From every source I can find, '09 is indeed the last year for the Rebel. I doubt Honda will sell another small bike, smaller than the Shadow 750. It would just cost too much to equip it with all the modern electronic crap that seems to be required on bikes these days. Kawasaki no longer sells a small street bike, look for Yamaha and Suzuki to drop theirs too. Honda no longer sells anything except super high dollar stuff anymore, other than the left over Rebels, which they are just trying to clear out. If you want a new Rebel, now is the time.

I find it flat out amazing that the cheapest new Harley now costs considerably less the the cheapest new Honda. Not saying Harleys are better, but at that price difference, I would definitely buy one over the Honda. As far as resale value, Honda 750 Shadows and Harley Sportsters seem to be holding their resale value about the same now, neither one very well.

What I find amazing is the price of older sportbikes. Used too you couldn't give away a 10 year old sport bike, because it was totally outdated. Now 10 year old sport bikes are the most expensive used bikes out there, surpassing even Harleys. Jerry.

Thanx for the up-date on the '09's, Guba & Jerry.....this is kinda disturbing, altho' not entirely surprising and a very telling sign on just how bad this economy is. One thing on the plus side is that there's no shortage of good, used 250's that folks can use as starter bikes or keepers if they like along with the new Yamahas & Suzukis (so far at least).

Just a quick side note on the 450 parts. Whenever I have some extra ca$h and while checking eBay, if I see decent used 450 parts where the seller isn't price-gouging, I've acquired a fair amount of used spares that I intend to hoard.

It's been a buyer's market for used bikes in general for quite some time now. Admittedly, Harley has come a long way since the introduction of EVO, but more & more aftermarket parts for Harley are being made in China, which isn't very encouraging. I'm not a sports bike kinda guy and would be hesitant to buy a used one......partly due to them being out-dated as you've said and partly because a lot of those have probably been thrashed along the way by previous owners......

JunkyardDog · 07-05-2010, 06:02 PM

I'm planning to get a Harley Electra Glide in the not too distant future, and I specifically want a carbureted EVO, hopefully mid 90s or later. I am an auto mechanic, and have to deal with electronic fuel injection crap on a daily basis, I sure don't want it on my bikes. I'm from an era where riders fixed their own bikes, sometimes beside the road. I also want a bike I can rebuilt. As simple and reliable and easy as the Rebel is to work on, it is not rebuildable for what it is worth. the pressed together crank makes it impossible to replace the rod bearings, tou have to buy a whole new crank assembly. The cam has no bearings, so you have to replace the whole head. As much as I like the Rebel, things like that are a major turn off to me. I'm used to rebuilding car engines (older car engines) that can be rebuilt 3-4 times by grinding the cam and crank, and using undersized bearings. The cylinders can be rebored several times, and oversized pistons used. Harley engines are that way. My old '66 Triumph Bonneville was that way. I'm a bit disappointed in the way Honda chose to do things. Jerry.

**GearJammer** · 07-05-2010, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JunkyardDog

I'm planning to get a Harley Electra Glide in the not too distant future, and I specifically want a carbureted EVO, hopefully mid 90s or later. I am an auto mechanic, and have to deal with electronic fuel injection crap on a daily basis, I sure don't want it on my bikes. I'm from an era where riders fixed their own bikes, sometimes beside the road. I also want a bike I can rebuilt. As simple and reliable and easy as the Rebel is to work on, it is not rebuildable for what it is worth. the pressed together crank makes it impossible to replace the rod bearings, tou have to buy a whole new crank assembly. The cam has no bearings, so you have to replace the whole head. As much as I like the Rebel, things like that are a major turn off to me. I'm used to rebuilding car engines (older car engines) that can be rebuilt 3-4 times by grinding the cam and crank, and using undersized bearings. The cylinders can be rebored several times, and oversized pistons used. Harley engines are that way. My old '66 Triumph Bonneville was that way. I'm a bit disappointed in the way Honda chose to do things. Jerry.

We're definitely on the same page here. I would never own a fuel injected bike. All bikes have their pluses & minuses......never had to tear into the 250 engine, but will take your word for it on the way they're designed. Have heard others say that as far as Japanese bikes, if the repair required a major teardown, it might be easier to simply buy another used motor and just swap 'em out. Very cool that you owned a '66 Bonnie. I've still got a '70 650cc Tiger chop (LOTS of wrenchin' required, but at least they can be worked on, LOL!) My biggest complaint about the Triumph design is that danged sludge trap located in the crankshaft which requires splitting the cases to get at.......horrible design right there! DOH! LOL!

JunkyardDog · 07-05-2010, 09:23 PM

Nice to know there is someone out there that does not like fuel injection. I believe you are the first one in years. I'm old school all the way, I grew up working on '50 and '60s cars and bikes, and never had any issues with the way they ran. I have a '64 car and a '66 truck right now, I put a well built 390 in the truck a couple of years ago, and expect it to outlast me. And it runs like new. And if something does go wrong, I can fix it with common hand tools, without a $10,000 diagnostic computer. Carburetors have always worked great, I never saw the need for anything else. I certainly don't see fuel injection as an improvement. Jerry.

**GearJammer** · 07-05-2010, 11:55 PM

I don't mind EFI on cars & trucks, but I can't work on it and can't afford to have someone else work on it, preferring to do as much of my own wrenching as possible, same as you.....and I simply wouldn't have EFI on any of my bikes, LOL! (But that's just me......well, and you, LMAO!)

Definitely with ya on the older vehicles all the way around. Less clutter, no computer stuff to go haywire, able to actually WORK on 'em.......newer isn't always better. Sometimes better when running right, but usually more expensive to fix when things go south......

**mpanther** · 07-31-2010, 05:03 AM

My wife and I just got back from a trip up to Montana. 2,200 miles in 12 days, with a three day layover in the middle.
I rode my GL650swi and she rode her CMX450c.
The only problem we had was the shifter seal started leaking bad and we had to add 8oz of oil per 100 miles for the last few days.
I'm sure a new seal and it will be fine.
(thought about just getting a seal and doing it on the road, but I'm lazy. lol)

**flitecontrol** · 07-31-2010, 10:33 AM

Welcome. Sounds like a nice trip. Hope the weather was better than where you hang your hat.

**Twister** · 07-31-2010, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpanther

My wife and I just got back from a trip up to Montana. 2,200 miles in 12 days, with a three day layover in the middle.
I rode my GL650swi and she rode her CMX450c.
The only problem we had was the shifter seal started leaking bad and we had to add 8oz of oil per 100 miles for the last few days.
I'm sure a new seal and it will be fine.
(thought about just getting a seal and doing it on the road, but I'm lazy. lol)

Which one did you have the leak on, the CMX or the GL? I've been lurking in Craigslist and I like the GLs 500 and 650, but I'd stay away from the turbo version. I also like the GL1100 (80-83) and the first versions of the GL1200 before being fuel injected, but I suspect they are going to be too heavy for me, the wrenching is something I'd look forward to, but a bike too heavy is something I probably wouldn't enjoy, so I'll pace myself.

Which parts are harder to find for you, the CMX450 or the GL650? Those are rare bikes and like them both. Do you have any pics from your trip/bikes? I'm sure the other members would enjoy pics from your trip.

**tonij_87** · 08-21-2010, 05:10 PM

Bought an '86 cmx 450 a couple of months ago. It has been well maintained, and runs great. I did have trouble finding a piece for the carb, and Jack's Rebel Warehouse had a used one. I hope to get a lot of riding time on this bike. I didn't realize when I got it that some of the parts were discontinued....but I love it, and plan on keeping it.

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