Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 2,283
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Sorry this is out of order, I have to get ready for bed here soon, tomorrow is a work day.
It seems this disagreement started over my making the suggestion that other members relocate their foot pegs to make the Rebel more comfortable. I just did so again, as a response to a new member who complained that their Rebel didn't have enough legroom. This person already had factory made crash bars which they had already scraped. I warned that making the modification I suggested required some mechanical knowledge, as does making any type of structural modification.
MANY members here modify their bikes in all kinds of ways, and some of them are fairly new riders. I have warned some of them that their modifications may not have been safe, and got yelled at because of it. In the end, it is up the the individual person whether they choose to make a modification, and how to make it. They will have to think it through for themselves. Riding a motorcycle requires a lot of thinking and decision making, and so does modifying a motorcycle.
It is certainly true that I do not believe a motorcycle can be ridden in complete safety, which is why I used the term "semi safely". IMO, that is the best any motorcycle rider can hope for, no matter how skilled or experienced they may be. The streets are a very hostile place for a motorcyclist.
I am also 6 feet, with a 34" inseam, and found the Rebel much to cramped for me. I feel the same way about the riding position of the stock Rebel as you do about the Vulcan 750 seat. I ride long distances, the longest on the Rebel so far was a 2 day, 800+ mile trip, after making my foot peg modification. It would not have been possible without the modification, and I had no issues with my modification on the trip.
Again, IMO, just because a certain part of the Rebel was designed a certain way, which makes it a very poor fit for some riders, does not mean that it's design cannot be safely modified to fit those riders. Many Vulcan 750 riders have also modified their bikes, including myself. I have not changed the seat or foot pegs, because the stock parts and their location fit me. I am certainly not the only member here that has modified or suggested modifying the Rebel. Many here have suggested using Jack's floor boards to make more legroom. I have not tried this, so I cannot say whether I feel it is safe or not, but it is certainly a modification. Just because a modification is factory made does not make it safe, as in the case of those large crash bars which many have dragged in turns.
As far as the "severe pain/unridable" comment, that was my opinion of the stock Rebels riding position, which I don't see as being any different from your comment about the Vulcan 750 seat. Some like it, some don't, and some find it downright intolerable. I have fairly severe arthritis/fibromyalgia, and simply cannot tolerate riding a stock Rebel very far without severe pain. My modification solved this problem. For me.
My years of riding experience, profession, and lack of accidents (on street bikes) are simple statements of fact. They can be taken as the reader chooses to take them.
My opinions on riding gear are simply that. My "opinions" My choices have worked for me. They may not work for everyone. Again, in order to ride a motorcycle, you must be able to think for yourself, and do what you feel is right for you, and deal with the consequences. Every rider is on their own there. There is no one thing that is right for everybody. Many here do not wear helmets, and I have complained about it, but it is their choice.
The Hurt Report is simply a very accurate collection of absolute facts. It is up to the reader what they get out of it, some of it is very obvious (helmets save lives, loud pipes do not save lives, drinking and riding do not mix) so of it requires a little more thought. Some riders can tolerate wearing all the gear, and are just fine with it. Some riders can't. Some can't even deal with wearing a helmet. Again, it's a personal choice, and the rider needs to be aware of the consequences of what they are doing/not doing before they make that choice.
Unfortunately, many people do drop their bikes. And I have to question whether someone who drops their bike a lot is ready to ride on the street. As you mentioned, I learned to ride (starting at age 8, which I believe is a bit early compared to many members here) on dirtbikes, and did drop them, quite often. I still drop dirt bikes once in a while. It has to do with the different riding conditions of riding on dirt vs riding on the street, and the fact that I ride differently in the dirt. I do a lot of things on dirt bikes that would be completely foolish on the street, and would almost certainly get you killed. Dirt riding is my outlet for when I feel like riding that way, but want to do it in a relatively safe environment. I have often suggested to new members that learning to ride in the dirt might be a better choice than on the street. But, that is their choice.
My opinions about the EPA are my own, and are probably the one thing that I have posted on this forum that does not belong here. I will refrain from posting any more attacks against the EPA.
As far as turn signals, I believe, and have stated several times that I believe they are very important to a beginning rider, and when I say turn signals, I mean "real" DOT approved turn signals, mounted in the stock location. Those tiny little non DOT signals, mounted 6" apart, are, IMO, much more dangerous than no turn signals at all. I have noticed that my use of arm signals seems to attract more attention from car drivers than flashers, but they are worthless at night, and I believe they are unsafe for a beginner who should be concentrating on riding and operating the controls.
I do not like safety switches for several reasons. They take away control of the motorcycle from me, they can and have failed, sometimes far from home, and can leave a rider stranded, if they do not have some electrical troubleshooting tools and know how to use them. They are also something that a new rider can learn to depend on to protect them, when they should be learning the right way, knowing that they need to put their side stand up before riding, and knowing that they need to be in neutral or have the clutch pulled in before starting the engine. I see them as "nanny" devices, similar to training wheels on a bicycle. As old as I am, I still remember my first bicycle with training wheels, which I crashed often, until the training wheels were removed, giving me control over the bicycle, and allowing me to lean over in turns without crashing, which is the way a bicycle should be ridden.
I will state flat out that I have/had no intention of influencing anyone to do anything unsafe, beyond riding a motorcycle, which IMO is already "unsafe" compared to a number of other activities. I would hope that by stating my years of experience and profession that beginners will realize where my opinions are coming from, and that they are NOT something a beginner should copy, though I have to admit I have always ridden that way, even when I was a beginner. But even a beginning rider is not a true beginner, they have already made the decision to ride a motorcycle, and hopefully they did a lot of research from a lot of different places,( the whole truth will never be found in one place) and a lot of soul searching, before coming to that decision. The decision to ride a motorcycle is not something to be taken lightly. In my case it was not a decision I had to ponder, I already knew I wanted to ride a motorcycle while still a very young child. Nevertheless, people have to be able to think for themselves, and make their own decisions. If they cannot do that, they most certainly do not belong on a motorcycle. Yes, my opinions are biased, as are everyone else's. Hopefully anyone who has made, or is making the decision to ride a motorcycle will not make their decision from one persons opinions. Doing that in itself disqualifies them from being able to ride a motorcycle.
An understanding of materials and structural engineering is not gained by riding. It is gained by lots of research, study, and even trial and error (hopefully the trial and error part will be done safely) There is also a requirement that a person be inclined in that direction anyway. Not everyone is capable of building an engine, and some never will be, no matter how much they try. I have built more engines than I can possibly remember. It is second nature to me. On the other hand, I could not cook or sew to save my life, and have never tried to learn. I can play a guitar, but not a piano. Some people can ride motorcycles and some can't. Some can learn to ride, and some can't. Not everybody can do everything. Hopefully by realizing I am an experienced rider and a professional mechanic, people will realize they will not be immediately able to do what I can do, just as I cannot do what a lot of other people can do.
It should be obvious that another skill I do not possess is writing ability, and I do not believe all the studying and practice in the world will ever get me there. Writing, like art, requires some degree of talent, and, IMO, so does pretty much everything else, including riding.
I also hope that I never have an accident, and intend to do my absolute best to prevent it. I will never choose to give up riding, that choice will be made for me, when I become physically unable to ride, just like my choice to ride in the beginning was made for me, by my desire to ride. Though it may not sound like it at times, riding is something I take very very seriously. I have said many times that I do not believe there is any such thing as "casual riding", it is either all or nothing. That refers to the commitment and dedication part. It has nothing to do with gear or safety devices or whether you choose to modify your bike or not. Those choices are certainly something to be taken seriously, after you are already totally and completely committed to riding.
As for modifying bikes, which is what started this whole issue, that is pretty much what Rebels are all about. The Rebel, more than any other small bike, lends itself to ease of modification. This forum even has a mods section. Very few people here ride a totally stock Rebel, and of those that do, most of them won't for long. The Rebel just begs to be modified, and it can be done safely or unsafely. But that is strictly up to the person doing the modifying.
I am not here as a role model, I am here for the same reasons most everyone else is. I own and enjoy riding and modifying a Rebel motorcycle. My opinions are no different from anyone elses. And I will continue to point out what I believe to be dangerous modifications, but as I said before, it is ultimately up to the person doing the modification to make that choice, and deal with the consequences of it.
Bobbers seem to be a big thing here, and I have repeatedly suggested to people thinking about building a bobber to consider a kit rather than doing it themselves, if they feel they may lack the ability to do it themselves. We have a moderator here who uses rear struts, which I consider to be unsafe. And while I have stated several times that I believe rear struts to be unsafe, I have never made a single complaint about this person using struts, and his posts about doing so. It is his choice.
Hopefully people reading this thread will get some insight and information from it, which will help them with making decisions about modifying their Rebel. When someone here suggests making a modification to their Rebel, everyone here is free to post their comments on it. It is up to the person making the modification to decide whether to take those comments into consideration. Yes I have repeated that umpteen times, because I believe it is the single most important thing here. Regardless of comments or opinions, it is everyones own responsibility to make their own decisions.
Good night to all, and to all a good night. Jerry.
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