First bike was the Rebel. Next bike should be how many cc's max? - Page 4

JunkyardDog · 06-18-2010, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Shack

Seriously, folks...how much of an epidemic is a flat tire? I've dealt with far more dead batteries that left me stranded after a ten hour shift at work than I have dealt with flat tires. Yes, it's an inconvenience. So is a dead battery, but that doesn't leave me lusting for non-electrical starting bikes (kick start) either.

Bottom line here is the most maintenance free bike formula is to buy whatever bike you want and pay someone to service it, you'll never get dirty hands by that method.

Of course I believe bikes should have backup kickstarters too, they worked back then, they would still work now. At least you can bump start most bikes. As for a flat tire, well, if it happens on I-8, about halfway between Gila Bend and Yuma, which is about 100 miles from nowhere, on a day when the temperature is 115 degrees, and buzzards are circling overhead, I'd say it's a pretty big deal.

But, understand I am a long distance rider. I rarely ever ride to work, but I think nothing of hitting the road for a several hundred mile weekend trip. Anything can break down on the road beyond repair beside the road, but most modern bikes including the Rebel are pretty reliable. The Rebels 2 biggest weak points are it's lack of a centerstand (I rigged one), and it's lack of a kickstarter (it's small enough for me to bump start).

The reason the flat tire thing is such a big deal to me is, one, it is unnecessary to use tube type tires on motorcycles anymore, and two, because I almost did die when I had a flat tire halfway between Gila Bend and Yuma once, in the middle of august, and did not have tools to fix it. If it weren't for a highway patrol cop that came along just as I was passing out from the heat, I wouldn't be writing this right now. I learned my lesson, and now won't go anywhere without multiple ways of fixing flats.

And yes Henry, a shaft drive cruiser would be an excellent step up from a Rebel. A mid to late '90s Yamaha Virago 750/1100 would be perfect. It has all the good stuff, and they solved the starter problem sometime around the late '80s. They were probably the most reliable Japanese v-twin cruiser ever made. They were also the first. My Vulcan 750 is also nice, but it's engine is not DIY friendly when it needs work. Fortunately mine has not needed any work, even after 46,000 miles, because I bought it new, and seriously overmaintain it. But it is one of very few motorcycle engines I wouldn't tear into. Jerry.

**Shadow Shack** · 06-19-2010, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henryinva

LOL, what a bunch of bs....

it boils down to the original post. not yur line of bs. They oughta regulate bikes that can go 180mph, a kid 19...might as well put a gun to his head and say, "hey, watch this"

Sheesh, who pissed in your corn flakes? For starters, some of those quips were simple humor. The emoticons should have cued you in to that.

Barring that, I'm just pointing out a few things to counter the common mindset, food for thought per se. I'm not asking you to join the "church of laced wheels and chain driven bikes", that's my preference so you don't need to rip me a new rectum should I happen to mention something that counters your tastes. I certainly haven't been ripping you or anyone else for a love of shaft driven tubeless tire bikes so I don't understand why this has to become hostile. I pretty much explained my stance on that shaft/chain bit with the VLX vs shaft driven 750 Shadow comparo (two bikes producing equivilent power, one weighs less and costs less), you get more bike for less without buying into the bigger is better propaganda. It has nothing to do with which system is better, it was a simple fact to prompt research on that next coveted bike. Maybe you missed that part.

As for the laced/tubeless bit, I merely asked a simple question (which happened to follow one of those emoticon supported humor quips). If it happens to be an epidemic for you, just say so. No need to go ballistic, it was an honest question...maybe I've just been lucky by not inheriting tire or tube damage in the past 13 years, luck that has been countered with numerous battery replacements. I can't help it if that somehow offends you, perhaps my mileage may vary compared to yours.

And please quote me (or anyone else for that matter) concerning recommendations for "180mph bikes as the next step", as I'm really curious where "yur bs" stems from on that issue. The closest in this thread is an agreement between Jerry and I concerning a 250 Ninja, which is merely capable of a hair over half those speeds, and it hasn't been mentioned since then so why must you continue to beat that dead horse? Are you just griping for the sheer sake of griping, or am I just missing a point behind this agenda?

**Shadow Shack** · 06-19-2010, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JunkyardDog

Of course I believe bikes should have backup kickstarters too, they worked back then, they would still work now. At least you can bump start most bikes.

I wish for it often myself. I swear I spend more each year on batteries than I do insurance! Okay it's not that bad, but I've yet to go a year without buying at least one for my "fleet". I just dropped a new one into the 96 Rebel this week, I've been averaging a year each on them lately for that bike.

Quote:

As for a flat tire, well, if it happens on I-8, about halfway between Gila Bend and Yuma, which is about 100 miles from nowhere, on a day when the temperature is 115 degrees, and buzzards are circling overhead, I'd say it's a pretty big deal.

But, understand I am a long distance rider. I rarely ever ride to work, but I think nothing of hitting the road for a several hundred mile weekend trip.

I get that, and again it's a "preference to riding habit" stance. I commute and rarely leave town (but it does happen once in a while). Like I said above, I've been fortunate enough not to suffer tire/tube damages (offset of course by the battery plague instead, gotta keep the universe balanced), in fact the only tire issue I ever had was a bad valve stem...which is not a tubed/tubeless tire factor. In all honesty it makes no difference to me, so I simply prefer the ones that look better, which are typically the laced wheels by my eyes (and I will admit there are a few OEM aluminum rims out there that are decent looking, they're just few and far between).

Quote:

The Rebels 2 biggest weak points are it's lack of a centerstand (I rigged one), and it's lack of a kickstarter (it's small enough for me to bump start).

I rock the Rebel up onto its sidestand and slip something underneath the swingarm myself. It's small/light enough for that too

My only gripe about the bike is the monkey butt inducing seat, I swear it makes me numb after my 8 mile commute to work and it takes some quality time to walk it off. I couldn't imagine the torture suffered by leaving city limits on that seat.

One thing I'll stress, again, is you won't likely have much choice on some of these features. While some bikes may actually offer the choice of laced or tubeless wheels, no bike will offer a choice in final drives. My ultimate next bike doesn't exist as 100% desired, but if I found something close enough, tubeless tires or a shaft drive wouldn't likely throw me off. That said, the closest so far is the 2010 Triumph Thunderbird. My gripes on that are two:

> it weighs more than they promised it would (pre-release reports had it at close to 600 wet and it ended up being over 700 instead)

>the front tire is of a unique size, meaning once production stops on the bike (sorry, it's inevitable in the metric world) the production will consequently end on the tire. Seriously, try to find white wall front tires for the VT1100 Aero, it was a unique size and you can't find those anymore (although black wall tires are still available in that size). There's another bike out there that escapes me, but it used a 200/70x15 tire before being discontinued in the late 90s and only Metzeler carried that size. They still do, albeit sporadically...if you need one during those years they aren't making them, you're screwed.

But note that the lack of laced wheels is not anything I griped about on that T-Bird. Then again, if they were laced I could relace it to a more common size once it gets canned and still be able to buy new tires later on

**Henryinva** · 06-19-2010, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Shack

Sheesh, who pissed in your corn flakes? For starters, some of those quips were simple humor. The emoticons should have cued you in to that.

Barring that, I'm just pointing out a few things to counter the common mindset, food for thought per se. I'm not asking you to join the "church of laced wheels and chain driven bikes", that's my preference so you don't need to rip me a new rectum should I happen to mention something that counters your tastes. I certainly haven't been ripping you or anyone else for a love of shaft driven tubeless tire bikes so I don't understand why this has to become hostile. I pretty much explained my stance on that shaft/chain bit with the VLX vs shaft driven 750 Shadow comparo (two bikes producing equivilent power, one weighs less and costs less), you get more bike for less without buying into the bigger is better propaganda. It has nothing to do with which system is better, it was a simple fact to prompt research on that next coveted bike. Maybe you missed that part.

As for the laced/tubeless bit, I merely asked a simple question (which happened to follow one of those emoticon supported humor quips). If it happens to be an epidemic for you, just say so. No need to go ballistic, it was an honest question...maybe I've just been lucky by not inheriting tire or tube damage in the past 13 years, luck that has been countered with numerous battery replacements. I can't help it if that somehow offends you, perhaps my mileage may vary compared to yours.

And please quote me (or anyone else for that matter) concerning recommendations for "180mph bikes as the next step", as I'm really curious where "yur bs" stems from on that issue. The closest in this thread is an agreement between Jerry and I concerning a 250 Ninja, which is merely capable of a hair over half those speeds, and it hasn't been mentioned since then so why must you continue to beat that dead horse? Are you just griping for the sheer sake of griping, or am I just missing a point behind this agenda?

ya forgot this part...
"second bike, cruiser, as thats where your leaning.

shaft drive, hardly any maintenance issues...

engine, of course, has its deal..

noggin on top that body your walking around in, 1st...

no one here can answer whats best for you..

try to use yer god given brain, which apparently is leaning towards a cruiser style bike, and figure out what ya can afford, what your goal with it is, its not going to be your first bike, so how long ya plan on keeping it? a long time, bigger cc. short time, ya got more coin than i do...

Stop for a bit and think..."

and how many posts did you put up referring to sport bikes, or inferring that someones being too lazy to oil a chain..

your not lilly white here shadow..
Lets let this ride for now..

**Shadow Shack** · 06-19-2010, 05:12 PM

Quote:

and how many posts did you put up referring to sport bikes, or inferring that someones being too lazy to oil a chain..

Exactly one each. Well, maybe a second one if you want to nit picks about how I was hesitant to recommend a huge touring bike or a supersport. As for the bit about "laziness and chain lubes" , once again as indicated by an emoticon, was a jest. You seem to be having trouble with that concept so let me explain what emoticons are for: to show emotional intent of an internet post in order for said post not to be misinterpreted.

But that's hardly an agenda. An agenda is making repetitious claims, such as the one about the OP claiming to want a cruiser for the next bike. (Once again,) I'll ask you to cite the sources from this thread, because here's everything the OP has posted on the topic so far:

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceattorney

I'm starting to look into the distant future when I eventually add to my stable, and was wondering how big of a bike I can go with, considering my first bike was my Rebel.

Thanks for your insight!

Quote:

Some awesome responses - thanks, fellas! I will definitely keep them in mind as I explore my options.

That's it, just those two posts on the first page. Nothing mentioned here about how he specifically wants a cruiser. If it's in another thread, I either missed it or simply didn't connect it to this thread. If he PMed you with that info, you failed to divulge that fact. But there's absolutely nothing here suggesting or supporting that except your own claims as to what he wants for this next bike. That's why I didn't bother responding to your second part. I'm not claiming to be "lilly white" here, all I'm asking is for you to cite the references (again). You've been ripping on me since my first post in this thread, and I'm just trying to understand why. So stop ignoring the questions and show me the links. Show me my alleged sportbike agenda which you seem to have such issues with, and show me where the OP specifically wants a cruiser.

Then we can work on letting it ride.

**fastpakr** · 06-21-2010, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JunkyardDog

The Vulcan 500 is indeed a nice bike, and faster than the Honda Shadow 750. I especially like the first incarnation, which followed the 454 LTD. It had belt drive, a centerstand, and cast wheels with tubeless tires. The latest version has chain drive, no centerstand, and tube type tires, which, IMO, prevents it from being a practical motorcycle. What do you do when (when, not if) you have a flat tire? If it weren't for that issue, I would highly recommend it as a step up from a Rebel. Jerry.

The chain drive takes all of 5-10 minutes of maintenance every couple of weeks to clean and lube. Not exactly a show stopper. Centerstand would be a convenient feature, but isn't exactly essential. Tube tires are a little bit of a pain, but if you're going on a long trip it isn't that much of a handycap to just toss in a set of spoons in case they're needed. I've done 400+ miles in a day on my 500LTD and it handles it gracefully. If you go with the 500A you're stuck with a sub 3 gallon fuel tank. That's what prevents it from being a practical motorcycle to me. The later models jump to 3.9 gallons, so I can hit 150 miles before running into the reserve.

**Shadow Shack** · 06-21-2010, 05:45 PM

I wonder just how much can be swapped between the pre-96 belt/aluminum wheeled EN500 and the 96+ chain/laced wheel bikes...if the belt swapped over to the 96+ bike that would be sweet.

**fastpakr** · 06-21-2010, 05:52 PM

I don't think the belt can be swapped, but the wheels definitely can. Not sure what all is involved, but it's been done a couple of times and is pretty well documented. Scootworks sells a kit to convert to a belt drive, but it never seemed worth the trouble to me. For a few minutes every couple of weeks I can maintain the chain and replace it every 20k+ miles. With the new screw master links I don't even have to deal with a clip or rivet.

JunkyardDog · 06-22-2010, 03:41 AM

A chain is not a problem. My '09 Ninja 500 has a chain, as does my Yamaha XT225, and my Rebel. The Ninja has tubeless tires and a centerstand, the XT has an aftermarket centerstand, and I have built an emergency centerstand that works with the existing sidestand for the Rebel. So, on all 3 of those bikes, I can fix a flat. On the 2 with tube type tires, I carry spare tubes, tools to remove the wheels, tire irons, and a pump. But I doubt what I rigged up as a stand for the rebel would work on a larger heavier bike. Even with tire irons, you have to have some way to support the bike while you remove the wheel. Part of the reason this is such a big deal to me, is that in 35 years of street riding, I have 2-3 flats a year. Over 35 years, that's a lot of flats. Jerry.

**Shadow Shack** · 06-22-2010, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastpakr

I don't think the belt can be swapped, but the wheels definitely can.

Seems if the wheels can be swapped, and assuming the countershaft never changed, then you could feasibly swap the wheels and belt over. Unless of course the swingarm length is different too...

Quote:

Scootworks sells a kit to convert to a belt drive, but it never seemed worth the trouble to me.

It's been well documented at VLX and 750 Shadow forums that the conversion kit has a 99% failure on the belt within 1000 miles. Turns out the belts are rated for a 4" diameter minimum pulley and the 600/750 Shadows used a smaller sized front cog, so the belts are constantly binding.

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