First bike was the Rebel. Next bike should be how many cc's max? - Page 2

**SMLE** · 06-13-2010, 10:50 PM

I have test ridden bikes from 800 to 1500+ CCs. After riding my Rebel for a while and getting a handle on the fundamental skills necessary for riding, it is much easier to move to another bike. If you like the looks of a certain bike, test sit one. If it feels comfortable sitting on it, test ride it. If you like it and are comfortable controlling it, go for it. It is quite a jump from a 234cc Rebel to a 1584cc HD Softail Delux. But I found the big bike very comfortable and easy to ride because of all the miles I have put on the little Rebel. It's like using a .22 rifle to master the fundamentals of marksmanship, then moving up to a 30-06 or even a 338 Lapua. It's a change, but you still shift gears or squeeze a trigger the same way big machine or small one.

That's my $0.02 worth, YMMV.

**Shadow Shack** · 06-14-2010, 07:38 PM

+1 for ultimately what you find comfortable. Like cars, don't let yourself get trapped into buying more than what you need. As long as you bring some developed skills to the table, meaning some quality seat time in variable conditions fromthe Rebel (as in far more than two weeks and atank of gas LOL) you'll be able to adapt to most bikes well. I would hesitate to recommend something uber-rediculous though, like a Boss Hoss or liter+ supersport bike as those would be what I consider "third tier" rides, as in you'll need some mastery in something else in between.

Just keep in mind that whatever you opt for, treat it like it's your first bike all over again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henryinva

Ya cant beat a shaft drive bike....

Actually, depending on the engine configuration you can beat a shaft drive. A transverse mounted motor (crankshaft perpendicular to the frame) loses more power along the way with those two right angle connections than a parallel system (chain or belt).

Case in point: take Harley's TC-88 motor and put it into their heaviest platform available (Electra Glide Ultra Classic). That air cooled two valve/cylinder single carb dinosaur tech motor will spank the snot out of equivilent displacement bikes like the LC1500 Intruder and Vulcan 1500 Classic. Both of those metric motors boast more base power thanks to liquid cooling (Vulcan), multiple carbs (Intruder), and 3-4 valves per cylinder (3 on the 'Zook and 4 on the Kaw)...and both have a serious weight advantage over the Ultra (about 150 pounds lighter), yet their shaft drives hamper all that power enough allow that heavier bike with a less powerful motor whip right on by. Put that TC mill into an equivlent weight package, like a DYna model, and you have an even bigger advantage...at least a one second difference between the traps.

If you need further proof, look at the Kawi stablemates. That same shaft driven 1500 Vulcan Classic puts down around 55 ponies to the ground, compared to the chain driven 800 Vulcan's 47 to the ground. That's pretty pathetic considering one is nearly twice the displacement over the other...both motors hail from the same gene pool, one is simply built to a larger scale. That's the "horse thief" shaft drive for ya. Fun Fact: if you could convert that 1500 to a chain, as several folks have managed in the past, you'd have a motor that puts down close to 80 ponies before messing with the intake or exhaust or any other performance mod. You simply can't make those same gains leaving the shaft in place, even with a stroker kit! Can you fathom what a V-Max could do with a chain drive? Between the traps it would eat R-1s for breakfast and crap out Hayabusas.

Unless the motor is laterally mounted (crank parallel to the frame, a la Gold Wing, Moto Guzzi, BMW boxer, etc), the chain or belt is simply more efficient. It only makes sense for a shaft on such lateral bikes, because either final drive system calls for one right angle connection: at the rear axle (shaft) or at the tranny (belt or chain), so with equal losses on either the lower maintenance system is a no brainer.

So for any transverse motor, you have to choose between low maintenance or more power. Not that any one model offers such a choice, but given the choice between two different yet comparable models, make mine belt or chain.

**Henryinva** · 06-14-2010, 08:24 PM

Umm, wasnt talking about all that, I WAS meaning maintenance wise, and it is does have a chain drive beat all to heII from that point of view.....

Didnt realize we were talking about getting as many ponies to the ground in a "whats good for a second bike" thread....Might as well be talking about a NOS shot..

**socalmarcus** · 06-14-2010, 08:34 PM

I wouldn't start with the engine size or even HP as the first consideration. Now that you've got some MC experience, you should be able to responsibly allow yourself more lattitude as to what kind of bike you want. Now I haven't owned a lot of different types/sizes of bikes so before I buy I will definately take my time.

I admired a co-workers Streetglide thinking that was my 'lottery bike.' When I test road a '10 Streetglide CVO at a show there were things I didn't care for - the passenger would be right on my back and the rear floorboards were inches behind the back of my calves when stopped. IMO you have to come to a complete stop just before you put your feet down, no rolling. It's a touring bike (duh) and I could never use it for much else - too much bike for me to have a carefree time on.

I've also looked at the Yamaha FJR sport tourer, That's for me! But not until I've really checked one out.

Space will always limit the # in my garage, there is no 1 bike for me. You're (too) looking for an addition - I say start with "what do you want it to do?"

**Shadow Shack** · 06-14-2010, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henryinva

Umm, wasnt talking about all that, I WAS meaning maintenance wise, and it is does have a chain drive beat all to heII from that point of view.....

Didnt realize we were talking about getting as many ponies to the ground in a "whats good for a second bike" thread....Might as well be talking about a NOS shot..

Geez, you really took that the wrong way.

The point is what I stated to the OP: don't get trapped into buying more than you need. With the common falacy of "buy bigger" the fact is there are smaller bikes out there that are more capable than the bigger ones, and the final drive can define that very fact. Case in point: chain driven Shadow VLX vs shaft driven 750 Aero/Spirit, even back when both were available, the VLX simply spanked the snot out of the 750s for $1000+ less, as was discovered at a dealer event here that dyno'd all their stock bikes.

But, if we're into getting bent out of shape over things...let's talk maintenance. If a person can't be bothered with the few minutes it takes to spray some lube onto a chain, I can only imagine what an inconvenience an oil change must be.

**flitecontrol** · 06-14-2010, 11:29 PM

I'd rather spend an hour lubricating a driveshaft every 10,000 miles/rear tire change than 10 minutes every 500 miles cleaning, spraying and adjusting a chain. Yes, I know you lose power with most shaft drives but that's not a concern with my shaftie. It still snaps my head back with ease. Shaft or belt and tubeless tires topped my list of must haves when getting a second bike.

The Rebel oil gets changed every 1,000 miles and the Vulcan 3,000. Not an inconvenience at all.

**Shadow Shack** · 06-14-2010, 11:57 PM

The point I'm making is it's not as tedious as folks make it out to be. Anyone can do it: point a can of spray lube at the chain, push the nozzle cap down. You don't need a manual to explain the procedure. There's a whole 'nuther list of maintenance procedures most bikes need that are far more intensive in terms of labor, one of them being a simple oil change.

In other words, claiming chain lubes to be a PITA is making a mountain out of a mole hill. I spend far more time gearing up/pre-ride inspection (y'all do those things too, right?) than I do with a chain lube.

P.S. if you're performing a chain adjustment with every lube, you need to invest in a better chain. I have EK X-ring chains on three bikes, each of them needed one adjustment shortly after install and not one of them have needed an adjustment in the 10-15K miles each has since travelled.

JunkyardDog · 06-15-2010, 01:15 AM

I've owned them all, and unless you really want the most performance you can get out of a bike, shaft drive is by far the best. Yes, it's less efficient, put a 750cc or larger shaft drive cruiser will still have plenty of power.

I have owned 2 large displacement crotch rockets, a '93 ZX11, and a '94 YZF1000. I did not crash either one, and I did use full throttle once in a while, but only on long straight roads. The main issue with both those was lack of comfort (it was pretty bad, I took a trip from Phoenix to San Francisco and back on the YZF, then promptly sold it. I have never suffered so much in my life, and I'm pretty sure it did some permanent damage) Also, these big sportbikes are so heavy ( well those were) that they handle like pigs in the twisties. A 600 will blow them away anywhere but top speed or all out acceleration.

The new V-Max is slower than the old one, and a LOT heavier. I believe it runs in the mid 11s. I just saw an older GSXR1000 run a 10.49 at over 140 mph a few weeks ago.

If you want a cruiser, I would recommend something in the 800 class, though I see no reason you couldn't ride a 1500. My Vulcan 750 has more power than most 1500s.

If you are looking at sport type bikes, look at the Kawasaki Ninja, Suzuki GS500, and possibly the standard SV650. The SV still has a sane amount of power. Where you run into trouble with sportbikes is handling, no matter what the size, from a Ninja 250 to a Hayabusa. If you try to take curves to fast, you will go down. Getting all there is out of a Ninja 250 requires a VERY skilled rider. Just because you have a lot of skill and experience on a cruiser does not qualify you for a sportbike, unless you intend to ride it the same as the cruiser, and then it doesn't make sense. Even the most comfortable sportbike is WAY more uncomfortable than a cruiser. I had to put handlebar risers, foam grips, and a Corbin seat on my Ninja 500 to make it rideable for me, then usually only ride it a couple hundred miles at the time, with a long break in the middle. On twisty curvy roads, that is a fun 200 miles though.

Personally I'll pass on the anti-lock brakes. I want full control of the motorcycle, and I don't want a motorcycle with digital electronics on it. Same thing with EFI, but thats up to you. You are the one who will have to deal with those things.

If you want a really big cruiser, it would be hard to beat a Suzuki Intruder LC 1500. If it weren't for the fact that I am saving for a Harley (an older one) I would get one myself. You can get a really nice used one for $5000 or less, and despite their size, they are (for me) just as easy to ride as a Rebel. Jerry.

**Qwikre** · 06-16-2010, 09:07 PM

I vote SV650 or Sporty 883. Go with your gut, comfort and style. Both nice bikes.

JunkyardDog · 06-16-2010, 10:29 PM

A goldwing 1800 is far easier to ride than a 600cc supersport bike. It's big, but very stable, has a low seat and low center of gravity. After a lot of experience on a Rebel without any accidents, you should be qualified to ride one, after just a little getting used to it.

A sportbike is a whole different thing. They are uncomfortable in the extreme, put you in a very awkward ansd unnatural riding position, they are top heavy, the handling is very twitchy, and a 600 supersport will easy outrun an 1800 Goldwing. They are much harder to control for a non expert, and very unforgiving. One tiny mistake will send you sliding down the asphalt before you even know what happened.

If you really want to get into sport riding, I suggest starting on an '07 or older Ninja 250. they are about the most forgiving and easiest sportbike you can get. I believe GenMar makes handlebar risers for them to relieve some of the discomfort. The Ninja 250 is not a bike you will grow out of soon, it will take at least 2-3 years before you learn to use everything it has. It has about twice the power of a Rebel 250. At that point, you can move up to a 600, and start learning all over again. At least you will have some idea what you are getting into.

But as far as cruisers go, you should be able to handle pretty much any size cruiser, and if you are talking used, a 1500 doesn't usually cost much if any more than a 750 or 800.

The Harley 883 isn't much of a step up from a Rebel. It's a little faster, a lot noiser, and a lot heavier. It's to cramped for me, and my Rebel with the relocated pegs isn't. Jerry.

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