Guba

Bikes with evap canisters are for California, which has stricter emissions standards than most of us.

Jerry, I don't understand why your so anti-emissions? What's the big deal if your gas tank vent line goes to an evap canister? It just means you'll burn off those gasoline fumes in the cylinder rather than the atmosphere where you won't use it.

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Some days beer tastes good...other days beer tastes better!

'07 Rebel 250 26,000 miles

Fridgitator

True, but some other states also forbid user mods that negate emissions crap that is designed to meet higher standards than their own. I haven't encountered this with a bike, but I have with a cage. I wouldn't encourage anyone to strip a bunch of factory emissions stuff only to be told that it is required based on the extra digits in the model number without checking first. FWIW.

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labeledbass

OK, I see its not the color but the extra production run but possibly the extra run just happens to be red/black. If you do go to any auto parts store and they look up Rebel, there is 2 models, one with the "2" at the end but the parts are the same. Thanks for clearing it up.

Now for the evap canister, is there any benefit to removing it? I KNOW it needs a good cleaning, apparently there is a valve in there and I know its gunked up. I just know from my experience with cars if you remove certain emission components you risk problems, such example would to plug your PCV - in return you get blow by and ruin your rings among other issues with the crank case. BUT on the other hand I know for a fact emission controls do hinder the performance of engines, unless of course the engine is built around the emissions which is the case these days - FYI, we don't have emission controls here in Savannah so "legally" this wouldn't be a problem.

Thoughts on removing the canister would be greatly appreciated, I know I'm at least going to clean it (its visibly dirty on the outside, can't imagine what the inside looks like...)

Thanks in advance guys

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labeledbass

I'm not sure removing the "T" would help, I can clearly see and "feel" the opening helps the fuel pressure and without a pump, and some with a filter you need all the pressure you can get.

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JunkyardDog

I am anti emissions for the same reason I am anti electronics. I am a purist. Both my car and truck are to old to have any kind of emissions or electronic crap on them, and they both run just fine, and are simple and easy to work on. They are also exempt from emissions testing due to their age. I can do anything I want with them without running afoul of the EPA nazis.


I have always removed all the emissions crap from motorcycles. My Vulcan 750 had about 20 pounds of it, with hoses and cannisters all over the place. It looks so much nicer, and is so much easier to work on without all that crap, and STILL passes emissions tests, which will hopefully go away this year in AZ for motorcycles.


The only thing the Rebel ever had was the evap system, which vents the tank into a charcoal cannister. But it's a little more complicated than that. The system also uses a separator and a vacuum operated pump, to return gasoline vapors from the charcoal cannister back into the intake system. If you fill up the tank all the way, liquid gas will overflow into the charcoal cannister, causing hard starting and poor running. I see no reason for leaving the system on the bike, and several reasons for removing it. The two I mentioned above, the fact that it serves no useful purpose whatsoever, plus it gets rid of a lot of excess clutter on the bike. When I got my Rebel, I found several things on it that served no useful purpose like that "shield" that was attached to the top engine mount, all of them are gone now, and the bike still runs just fine, but is neater and cleaner and less cluttered. There is no way you can get into trouble by removing emissions crap from a bike, as no other state besides AZ has motorcycle emissions testing. Even here they don't check equipment like they do on cars.


Many people here have removed the airbox, and are running a pod type filter, and many either have aftermarket exhaust systems, or homemade exhaust systems, all of which is technically illegal, but everybody does it. I'd say that 9 out of 10 bikes around here have aftermarket exhaust systems, which are usually much louder than stock, despite the "no tampering" warnings written all over the stock systems.

If you want, you can always remove the evap system and save it, if you are afraid they may start checking such things in the future, but I would say the chances of that are somewhere between slim and none.


You can also remove the emissions crap from older model cars, if you live in an area that does not have emissions testing. If you bought the car used, and ever do get caught, you can always say you bought it that way.


Newer cars, with their computer controlled engine management systems are another matter, which is why I avoid such cars at all costs.


Back when I was into VW bugs, one of the owners of a local air cooled VW performance shop had 2 engines for his '70s model bug, one high performance built from the ground up engine for daily driving, and one stock engine tuned to pass emissions. Every year, he swapped engines for the emissions test. This may seem a bit extreme for those not familiar with air cooled VW engines, but it only takes an experienced mechanic less than 4 hours to swap engines.


I believe that a vehicle owner has the right to modify that vehicle any way they want, as long as it is still safe. The safety issue only comes up because it would put other people on the road in danger, not because it might put the vehicle owner in danger. That is up to them.

I grew up modifying vehicles and building hot rods, and have no intention of stopping now. Newer cars and trucks are not suitable for this, but here in AZ, we have a lot of nice older vehicles, because things just don't rust here.


One of the neat things about the Rebel is it's ease of modification, and one of the first modifications I would make is to remove any emissions crap. I even removed the turn signals from mine (legal here). It's a little more trouble to use arm signals, but it actually seems to get cagers attention more than the lights.

It is, of course, up to the owner what, if any, modifications they want to make. Thats what the whole thing is about. Jerry.

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labeledbass

Jerry, ok yeah I've always gone around emissions (if possible) in the past, in Atlanta you had to have a certain amount of emissions to get your sticker, not like California but pretty strict. I've had so many emission related problems with cars in the past they just tick me off, but I do understand the concept and reason ( my cousin also heads up the education department for the EPA....) but anyway, ok, I've torn my bike apart looking for this "canister" but no such luck, there is a breather hose from the crankcase that goes to a assembly that in turn goes through the air box into the hose that hooks up to your air filter. This "assembly" also has a large tube running straight down, I've heard it called a "puke pipe". When I took my (new) air filter out I noticed a light tan liquid, seeing this I dug deeper. I went to the "puke tube" and unclamped and pulled the plug and A LOT of the same substance ran out. I thoroughly cleaned this "assembly" and the hoses so everything is clean now but I still can't find this canister, maybe mine doesn't have one. The closest thing in size is the starter and the "tool box" behind the air box. So in conclusion I don't think I have one, unless I'm seriously missing something - btw, bike bandit does state my 99 C2 has a canister, or at least sells the darn thing under the model year -

Thoughts?

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Guba

Not all Rebs have the evap canisters. As your on the east coast you probably don't. Arizona is neighbor to California, so it don't surprise me that Jerry's bike had one. Even though it's a Japanese bike, the bikes are assembled here in the states. Marysville, Ohio had a Honda bike plant that just closed shop. I'm not sure what other Honda bike factories exist, but I'm pretty sure a bike on the east coast didn't come from California. With that being said, it's always possible for someone to move from California to the east and bring their bike with them.

As for the puke tube. If you live in an area of the country that has high humidity all the time, then Honda recommends that you drain it more often. Where I live, I only have to drain mine once a year.

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Some days beer tastes good...other days beer tastes better!

'07 Rebel 250 26,000 miles

labeledbass

Thanks Guba, yeah I probably live in the most humid area in the lower 48 so I will schedule a drain probably every month, especially in the summer months. Whats the purpose for this? I understand the crank case having a vent to prevent blow by but where does this tan liquid come from? condensation created in the case? I noticed it draining all the way into my air filter so it had to be full to the brim to get to that point. And honestly would it hurt anything remove the entire system for simplicity and just put a air filament on the crank vent, like on some cars? I can see a vacuum being created by the air filter there for "pulling" whatever this substance is to the down tube though, I wouldn't imagine this effecting performance so I may just keep it on there to keep things the way honda designed it to be.

And yes, I can't find a canister anywhere on the bike so I apparently don't have one, that's ok - one less vacuum leak to worry about.

Thanks for the reply Guba! have a safe one!

More laterz ~ Edward

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JunkyardDog

First of all, I stand my ground against emissions controls, especially on bikes. I driver older cars, because they don't have any, and there are so many things about newer cars I don't like I wouldn't want one anyway. For one, I do not believe in combining electronics with mechanical parts, especially engines. There was a time when you could simply remove these parts, replace the TBI with a carb, and the distributer with one with mechanical and vacuum advance, yank off the air injection, egr valve, and catalytic converter, and have a perfectly normal car, without it costing that much. Those days are long gone. The computerized engine management systems on todays cars have become so complicated, that they are actually a part of the engine. It's kind of like a cyborg. Part human, part machine. On such cars, you would have to replace the entire engine, and even that is not usually possible on front wheel drive cars, which BTW, is something else I don't want anything to do with.


Anyway, if your bike had one of those cannisters, it would have been really obvious, they stick out like a sore thumb, look ugly, and cause starting and running issues. As far as that gunk in the drain tube, it is a combination of water (from condensation) gas (also from condensation of gas vapors back into liquid gas, and oil (a fine mist of oil is thrown out the crankcase vent, not enough to affect oil level, but enough to show up in the drain tube. All of this is perfectly normal, and will be worse where it is cold and the humidity is high, both from using the choke more, and more water condensing on the inside of the engine.

Newer cars, those built since 1963, get around this problem because they have a PCV valve (positive crankcase ventilation valve) which uses intake vacuum to actually suck this stuff out of the crankcase, and feed it back through the intake manifold, where it goes through the engine again, gets burned, and goes out the tailpipe. While this was actually designed as an emissions control, it does very little to control tailpipe emissions. But it is a good idea, because it keeps the crankcase cleaner, thereby keeping the oil cleaner, and making it last longer. Another reason why most bikes need their oil changed more often than cars. Jerry.

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Soul Searcher

My Rebel is also a 1999. My wife's Rebel is a 2000, C2. After working on the two Rebels, the only things that I have found different is the Side Covers. The C2 covers are deeper and they protrude futher out than the C. The "T"'s that have no hose connected to are standard OEM. When the hose was assemblied for the assembly line, there was no way to know if it was a 49 state or Ca. Rebel. One hose design for every Rebel. The desigination for CA. in Honda Parts Manual is refered to as AC, other 49 states is A. Another way to tell if it is CA. Model. Remove left side (air cleaner) panel. Inside on cover or outer air cleaner housing cover will be an emission label. Read it and it will tell you what you have.

Hopes this helps.

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