twocoolgliders

LOL............good analagy!

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twocoolgliders

"computer" might be too big of a term......maybe "electronic ignition control" is better........

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twocoolgliders

Yes, but........the closer the gas station gets to the bottom of the tank, the more chance of picking up water and other contaminates! When we get a gas delivery at the airport, there is a waiting period before you can pump gas into an airplane, to let all the stirred up crap settle back to the bottom of the tank!

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twocoolgliders

Back to my original question/observation..........

What is the scientific basis (if one even exists) that engines (designed for regular) will run better on high test?

All of my internet searching comes up with you don't need and don't benefit from high test unless you are getting knock........

Never any mention of better mileage, performance, smoother running etc......

Sure lots of "guys" claim this, but never any credible explaination of "why".......

Then again, lots of people claim to have seen space ships from mars, and little green men, and Elvis, and ghosts, and Jesus, etc........


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twocoolgliders

For you who think I am full of it...........here is an article form the Federal Trade Comission......but then again it is all a big conspiricy to get us to not get max performanceout of our Honda Rebels!




Federal Trade Commission Protecting America's ConsumersSkip to Main Content



Facts for ConsumersPDF Format Email
The Low-Down on High Octane Gasoline
Are you tempted to buy a high octane gasoline for your car because you want to improve its performance? If so, take note: the recommended gasoline for most cars is regular octane. In fact, in most cases, using a higher octane gasoline than your owner's manual recommends offers absolutely no benefit. It won't make your car perform better, go faster, get better mileage or run cleaner. Your best bet: listen to your owner's manual.

The only time you might need to switch to a higher octane level is if your car engine knocks when you use the recommended fuel. This happens to a small percentage of cars.

Unless your engine is knocking, buying higher octane gasoline is a waste of money, too. Premium gas costs 15 to 20 cents per gallon more than regular. That can add up to $100 or more a year in extra costs. Studies indicate that altogether, drivers may be spending hundreds of millions of dollars each year for higher octane gas than they need.

What are octane ratings?
Octane ratings measure a gasoline's ability to resist engine knock, a rattling or pinging sound that results from premature ignition of the compressed fuel-air mixture in one or more cylinders. Most gas stations offer three octane grades: regular (usually 87 octane), mid-grade (usually 89 octane) and premium (usually 92 or 93). The ratings must be posted on bright yellow stickers on each gasoline pump.

What's the right octane level for your car?
Check your owner's manual to determine the right octane level for your car. Regular octane is recommended for most cars. However, some cars with high compression engines, like sports cars and certain luxury cars, need mid-grade or premium gasoline to prevent knock.

How can you tell if you're using the right octane level? Listen to your car's engine. If it doesn't knock when you use the recommended octane, you're using the right grade of gasoline.

Will higher octane gasoline clean your engine better?
As a rule, high octane gasoline does not outperform regular octane in preventing engine deposits from forming, in removing them, or in cleaning your car's engine. In fact, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency requires that all octane grades of all brands of gasoline contain engine cleaning detergent additives to protect against the build-up of harmful levels of engine deposits during the expected life of your car.

Should you ever switch to a higher octane gasoline?
A few car engines may knock or ping - even if you use the recommended octane. If this happens, try switching to the next highest octane grade. In many cases, switching to the mid-grade or premium-grade gasoline will eliminate the knock. If the knocking or pinging continues after one or two fill-ups, you may need a tune-up or some other repair. After that work is done, go back to the lowest octane grade at which your engine runs without knocking.

Is knocking harmful?
Occasional light knocking or pinging won't harm your engine, and doesn't indicate a need for higher octane. But don't ignore severe knocking. A heavy or persistent knock can lead to engine damage.

Is all "premium" or "regular" gasoline the same?
The octane rating of gasoline marked "premium" or "regular" is not consistent across the country. One state may require a minimum octane rating of 92 for all premium gasoline, while another may allow 90 octane to be called premium. To make sure you know what you're buying, check the octane rating on the yellow sticker on the gas pump instead of relying on the name "premium" or "regular."

For More Information
If you're concerned about the accuracy of an octane label - or if you don't see a yellow octane sticker on a gasoline pump, write: Consumer Response Center, Federal Trade Commission, Washington, DC 20580.

The FTC works to prevent fraudulent, deceptive and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop and avoid them. To file a complaint or get free information on consumer issues, visit ftc.gov or call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357); TTY: 1-866-653-4261. Watch a new video, How to File a Complaint, at ftc.gov/video to learn more. The FTC enters consumer complaints into the Consumer Sentinel Network, a secure online database and investigative tool used by hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad.

October 2003

About Us Contact Us Jobs Recovery Act No FEAR Act Data Performance and Accountability Report FOIA Site Map
Website Policies Accessibility Privacy Policy Browser Plug-ins Related Sites USA.gov For FTC Staff Last Modified: 24 April 2009

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maxweljames

FWIW, twocoolgliders, I wouldn't trust any document that comes from the FTC, conspiracy against our Rebels or not. LOL

As nobody can agree on anything in this topic I'm just going to admit it, Jack Daniels Old No.7 give me a 25 HP boost in my Reb. Then by holding a penny in the palm of my throttle hand I get a slightly better reaction time off the line. With a chain that I've freshly lubed with Extra Virgin Olive Oil I can match a 'busa off the line. There, I said it, the secret to my uber fast Honda.

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Maxwel James
2003 Honda Rebel

cagie

Yeh, it's the CDI or Ignition Control Module.

It's what replaced the points for ignition timing. So now instead of spending a few bucks to replace points and being able to manually time the engine we have to spend $140 if one of these goes bad.

AND this also means that you have to be careful about how you handle the electrical system as you could potentially blow the CDI (like not disconnecting that and the battery when doing any welding on the frame...)

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Comments contained in my posts are not intended to cause physical or psychological stress and are mearly my two cents worth, and in this economy, that's cheap!
87 CMX250C 'the Pygmy Pony'
87 CMX450C 'Black Lithium'

GearJammer

Near as I can tell, this controversy started on the assumption that the recommended octane rating was 87 octane and end of convo. From the manual page posted by Cagie, the manufacturer actually offers a "range" of from 86-91 octane, left to the owner's discretion. This range might also reflect the possibility that some owners would prefer to use any octane rating within that range and based on how the owner felt a certain octane enhanced or hindered the individual bike's performance. "twocoolgliders" seems to insist on seeing "scientific data" to validate each owner's octane choice. Based on the allowable range recommended by the manufacturer, I see no need to validate anything beyond what one's personal observation is when riding their own bike.......91 octane didn't turn the 450 into a screamin' demon, but there was a noticeable difference in performance as compared to the 87 octane, this based solely on my own observation from actually riding the bike and I'm not the only one in this thread who's mentioned a noticeable improvement in performance from using a higher and allowable octane rating (as per the manufacturer's specs). Bottom line, if we're each good with it, each to his own, I don't see any need to argue about it........Time to get in motion here......Ride Safe, All........

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"Ridin' Ain't A Hobby, It's A Lifestyle"

1986 450 Rebel

cagie

Something that no-one has mentioned, or I missed it, but I am suprised it didn't stand out. We are discussing IF higher octane would be of any benefit. Many of us have been under the delusion that 87 was the only thing recommended by Honda. I have since remedied that notion by providing a document contrary.

Now we still have not established any benefit to running higher octane fuels.

What I found missing in the conversation: ethanol. Too many gas stations have blended fuels now. How does THAT effect the performance of our engines? It is my opinion that these smaller engines do not suffer any ill effects from using lower octane and ethanol mixtures. I have put on over 12k this year so far, all on 87 octane and much of that contained at least 10% ethanol (or at least what is reported on the pump by law).

My reasoning; as I stated before, the Rebel has such a short piston stroke that it only has time to burn what the spark ignites, anything else is a waste. If I were developing a ping or knock I would seriously be looking elsewhere like piston rings or burned valves or valve guides before turning to a higher octane fuel. If anything, higher octane fuel would only mask the symptom.

Now, If I were running a longer stroke, lower RPM engine, like a Harley, I would probably run a higher octane to get a hotter and cleaner burn. I would also probably want to avoid ethanol blended fuel.

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Comments contained in my posts are not intended to cause physical or psychological stress and are mearly my two cents worth, and in this economy, that's cheap!
87 CMX250C 'the Pygmy Pony'
87 CMX450C 'Black Lithium'

Fridgitator

I'd love to avoid ethanol, but real gasoline is not available here.

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'09 Rebel 250

Loud ties save lives.