GearJammer

There's nothing for you to concede to, Cagie.....but I honestly appreciate your input here.

Still not sure about the "timing advance = "ignition advance" or not, but it's pretty much a moot point in regards to this conversation.......Thanx again........very much!

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"Ridin' Ain't A Hobby, It's A Lifestyle"

1986 450 Rebel

twocoolgliders

What are you conceeding?


it says actually at least 86 octane.........

Only use higher "IF KNOCKING OR PINGING"...........or change brands.........or see Honda dealer for repair..........

Rebel uses regular.....unless something is wrong, then the problem is usually the bike, not the gas.........The manual is implying that some brands are not up to snuff, maybe lower octane than listed.......

So I stand by my arguement that if you don't get knock, you don't need higher octane, and that if you do use higher octane, no measurable benefit will be realized.

A rebel getting knock on regular means one of a few possibilities.......

Crap gas......
Deposits on pistons or in combustion chamber
Timing out of whack

Using high test may eliminate the knock, but it is just masking another problem.....

Cookie

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GearJammer

"Only use higher "IF KNOCKING OR PINGING"."

No........that's not what it says. Read it again. Also looked up "timing advance/ignition advance" and I was correct on that as well.........You've been wrong TWICE.

At least Cagie has the integrity to stand by the facts.......I gotta get a beer.........

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"Ridin' Ain't A Hobby, It's A Lifestyle"

1986 450 Rebel

twocoolgliders

sorry, I was not clear......I should have said "ignition timing".....that is, how far before top dead center the spark plug fires.......but basically ignition timing or ignition advance or spark advanc means all the same thing

Sometimes "timing" can refer to valve timing.......that is where in the engine cycle does the valves open and close....


A more advance ignition timing will fire earlier, before top dead center

On most automotive engines the ignition timing is variable and changes with RPM..........higher PRM= more advance.........starting and idle = little or no advance........

As far as I know this is controlled by a computer module on the Rebel and cannot be adjusted by mechanic or user.........

Back in the day, when cars had "distributers" you could set the basic timing....and check it throughout the RPM range.........you tried to set the most advance possible, without getting knock.......going to high test would allow a little more advance without knock and a slight power increase.....

Back in my VW days, we would remove the VW distributor which would advance by means of engine vacuum, and install a Porsche "centrifigal " distributer which advanced the spark by purly weights, not vacuum.....different acceleration curve and driving style......slight increase in power throughout the rpm range......

Cookie

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twocoolgliders

Right.....it does not say "only"


It says if knocking or pinging occurs.....blah blah....

Same meaning though......


But, it certainly does not say "use higher octane" to "run better" as you imply happens though...

The manual mentions knock vs octane.......this is correct......this is the main reason higher octane fuels were developed.........

I'm not sure what I said wrong about advance however.........

But if you still think you get better running due to high test gas......I am still waiting for some reason why? "it just happens" is not really a reason.......

Many people claim this, but I have yet to see a reasonable explaination, and I have tried myself with not the same results.......

Cookie

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twocoolgliders

Dude.............sorry again.........I mean that the rebel timing cannot be changed buy the user or the mechanic........

It advances the timing by way of the computer..........not adjustable


If the timing gets screwed up, you get a new module......

If it was possible to advance, (over the factor setting) then you might try that until you get knock, then try higher octane to stop the knock......

Geeeze............I thougt you guys knew something about mechanics, and the lingo...........doooooooooooough!

Cookie

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Guba

What, are you guys writing a novel here? lol

After reading all this I'm gonna risk my butt and get a lot of flack here. But oh well, won't be the first time.

First off, I haven't seen ANY wrong answers! I simply can't dissagree with anyone! But I do think you guys over looked what hedwards posted. Gasoline has a short shelf life! I was taught it's only two weeks. I haven't researched that fact any farther, guess I'm just content. I just like to be a blissful kind of guy. If a gas station has a tank 1/3rd full and a tanker comes in to refill, what just happened? The gas was diluted with fresh gas! Or maybe the fresh gas was just diluted with old, what ever! If you keep doing this week after week, your eventually gonna have a tank of gas that isn't 100% fresh. The more gas you move out of that tank before you refill it, the better quality it will be! Better gas mileage! I completely understand where ALL of you guys are coming from as I've experienced these same phenomena's myself.

For better gas mileage I truly believe it's how fresh the gas is.

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Some days beer tastes good...other days beer tastes better!

'07 Rebel 250 26,000 miles

travatron4000

So Basically Guba is saying Gas is like PBR. You have to go somewhere that sells a lot of it or it's gonna be skunky....

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Fridgitator

I didn't know my Reb had a computer. Something else to worry about.

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'09 Rebel 250

Loud ties save lives.

twocoolgliders

Interesting point about "fresheness"........guys with 2 stroke engines will only mix up enough fuel/oil to use that day, as it goes bad quickly........I am not sure about the shelf life of car gas, maybe 6 months though.......I do know airplane gas has longer shelf life, like 2 years......ifyou ut car gas in airplane it often stinks bad.......

Maybe this is why manual says to "change brands" if you get ping or knock?

Cookie

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