Rebel a Decent Ride? - Page 5

JunkyardDog · 03-12-2010, 12:45 AM

About the destroying perfectly good cars thing, I just posted this on another thread, but it fits here to, so I'm reposting it. As a classic car enthusiast, it is something I have very strong feelings about. Fortunately, the "cash for clunkers" thing only applied to 1984 and up cars, so no real classics were destroyed.

"The EPA is not that smart, nor do they think that far ahead. It actually causes far less pollution by continuing to drive older cars, than it does to manufacture newer ones, and scrap the old ones. It causes far more pollution to build a car than that car will make in it's lifetime, and more pollution to recycle and old car that it ever made during it's lifetime. This issue came up back when I was a member of a number of moped forums, and I researched it thoroughly. Not only that, but it causes much more pollution to manufacture a "green" car, like the Toyota Prius, and to recycle it when it's lifespan is over, than a 2 door Jeep Wrangler convertable. The other neat thing about the Jeep, is that it can be kept going almost forever without it costing a fortune, while the Prius quickly reaches a point where it is cheaper to replace than to drive, making the Jeep FAR more economical and less polluting, assuming you keep driving it for 20-30+ years.

Oh yeah, the Jeep's brakes are FAR less likely to fail than the Prius brakes, making it a lot safer too. Plus, it is also a lot more fun to drive.

It does cost a fortune to keep a newer computerized fuel injected car going beyond it's useful lifespan, because of the ridiculous cost of parts, and the highly specialized training and expensive equipment necessary to find electronic problems in the first place. Plus, these cars were only designed to last for so long, and after that time, all kinds of expensive things start going wrong. That's why you can find nice looking fairly late model cars for sale cheap. Don't let their looks fool you. They are worn out, about to fall apart, and they not worth repairing. That is why they are so cheap.

**Shadow Shack** · 03-12-2010, 09:56 AM

Never mind all the Prius "issues" out there right now, factor in how it costs $8K for a new battery pack after 7-8 years. I would never lease a new car, but in the case of the Prius, it only makes sense to lease one based on that alone!

JunkyardDog · 03-13-2010, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Shack

Never mind all the Prius "issues" out there right now, factor in how it costs $8K for a new battery pack after 7-8 years. I would never lease a new car, but in the case of the Prius, it only makes sense to lease one based on that alone!

People just don't seem to think that far ahead. Most people now buy a new car every 3-4 years. But, what happens to the used ones? Since they are not worth repairing after several years, they get scrapped. Or sold cheap to someone who doesn't know they are junk. That applies to ALL late model cars, not just the Prius. With all the complex and failure prone electronics and emissions crap new cars have, plus the extremely poor build quality, they quickly reach the point where they are no longer worth fixing. If you spend the money and fix them anyway, it will only be a matter of time before the body begins to fall apart. They were literally designed to fall apart, either quickly in an accident, or more slowly over time. They were designed and intended to be disposable and recyclable. I saw this happening years ago, and got myself some old '60s cars, and rebuilt them. I'm just not into the disposable thing, I wanted cars that would last, and something that I could work on at home. I am a professional fleet mechanic, but it is a government fleet dept., and I cannot work on my own vehicles there. I also love the style of old cars, and have an extreme dislike for the government telling the car companies how to build cars. I call all late model cars "government cars" because while they may have been built by the automakers, they were designed by the government.

Just one more thing. As a fleet mechanic, I have been taught all about airbags, how they work, how to remove and install them without getting blown up, etc. But one thing the general public does not yet know, is that airbags do not have an infinite life. After several years, they are prone to failure, due to deterioration. This can result in one not deploying in and accident, or far worse, deploying for no reason, probably causing an accident. Anyone out there with a car with first generation airbags should definitely be concerned about this, and might want to consider removing them. The government expected the airbags to last the life of the car, but there are always going to be some of these cars out there still in use long after the airbags have seriously deteriorated.

I don't believe in the "life of the car" thing, I see no reason a car cannot last pretty much forever. That is the case with airplanes. A friend of mine has a beautiful 1947 Beechcraft V35 Bonanza, which looks brand new, and is in brand new condition. Since aircraft have to have an annual inspection, they remain airworthy. They can be kept flying indefinitely, and upgraded with the latest avionics technology if the owner wishes. Why not the same with cars? And bikes? Harley has proven it can work with bikes. Jerry.

**Shadow Shack** · 03-13-2010, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JunkyardDog

Since aircraft have to have an annual inspection, they remain airworthy. They can be kept flying indefinitely, and upgraded with the latest avionics technology if the owner wishes. Why not the same with cars? And bikes?

Simple answer there: Cars and bikes are a great source of (veiled) tax dollar revenue for states.

I'd guess that 1 person in 200 knows how to fly a plane, and one in a thousand actually owns one. Yet all 200 or all one thousand of those people own a car (or bike, or both). Start restricting what can be driven and what can't and suddenly your state's tax coffers get lighter.

**twocoolgliders** · 03-13-2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JunkyardDog

People just don't seem to think that far ahead. Most people now buy a new car every 3-4 years. But, what happens to the used ones? Since they are not worth repairing after several years, they get scrapped. Or sold cheap to someone who doesn't know they are junk. That applies to ALL late model cars, not just the Prius. With all the complex and failure prone electronics and emissions crap new cars have, plus the extremely poor build quality, they quickly reach the point where they are no longer worth fixing. If you spend the money and fix them anyway, it will only be a matter of time before the body begins to fall apart. They were literally designed to fall apart, either quickly in an accident, or more slowly over time. They were designed and intended to be disposable and recyclable. I saw this happening years ago, and got myself some old '60s cars, and rebuilt them. I'm just not into the disposable thing, I wanted cars that would last, and something that I could work on at home. I am a professional fleet mechanic, but it is a government fleet dept., and I cannot work on my own vehicles there. I also love the style of old cars, and have an extreme dislike for the government telling the car companies how to build cars. I call all late model cars "government cars" because while they may have been built by the automakers, they were designed by the government.

Just one more thing. As a fleet mechanic, I have been taught all about airbags, how they work, how to remove and install them without getting blown up, etc. But one thing the general public does not yet know, is that airbags do not have an infinite life. After several years, they are prone to failure, due to deterioration. This can result in one not deploying in and accident, or far worse, deploying for no reason, probably causing an accident. Anyone out there with a car with first generation airbags should definitely be concerned about this, and might want to consider removing them. The government expected the airbags to last the life of the car, but there are always going to be some of these cars out there still in use long after the airbags have seriously deteriorated.

I don't believe in the "life of the car" thing, I see no reason a car cannot last pretty much forever. That is the case with airplanes. A friend of mine has a beautiful 1947 Beechcraft V35 Bonanza, which looks brand new, and is in brand new condition. Since aircraft have to have an annual inspection, they remain airworthy. They can be kept flying indefinitely, and upgraded with the latest avionics technology if the owner wishes. Why not the same with cars? And bikes? Harley has proven it can work with bikes. Jerry.

Jerry....Right on with the airplane analagy......

I learned to fly in the late 1980's in a 1946 airplane...that plane is still flying today.....Most of the planes that come into our shop are from 20 to 40 years old........many are 60 years old.........

Anything from the 1980's onward is considered "new".......

I built my own two airplanes, The engine in one is from 1939, while the other has a really "new engine"......1954........

Of course I ovehauled these engines, and it isn't cheap to do so, but essentially they will last forever with new parts being added as necessary, as will the airframes. The only thing that puts an airplane completely out of service is a bad crash or fire. But even then, all good parts are salvaged and resold. You often see a plane with wings from another plane and an engine from another etc. I spent last winter replacing all the bottom skin panels on a plane the landed with its wheel up. Our shop just redid a plane that ran out of gas and came down in the woods......extensive repair job, but the plane flew again last week.......

Back to cars.......I read years ago that Porsche had come up with a design for a "20 year car".......the initial cost was going to be quite high, but worth it over time........Market research revealed that the concept would not be accepted by the public.........people want new cars just for the sake of having a new car.......

Cookie

**twocoolgliders** · 03-13-2010, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Shack

Simple answer there: Cars and bikes are a great source of (veiled) tax dollar revenue for states.

I'd guess that 1 person in 200 knows how to fly a plane, and one in a thousand actually owns one. Yet all 200 or all one thousand of those people own a car (or bike, or both). Start restricting what can be driven and what can't and suddenly your state's tax coffers get lighter.

It's actually 1 in 500 are airplane pilots.........

But the tax revenue is got me really boiling...........last year it cost me about $30 each to register my bikes, and $36 for my car.......this year the bikes went up to $76 each !!!!!!!!! WTF!!!!! I'm using 1/4 the gas with the bikes, I not wearing out the roads, I'm not even taking up parking spaces.

Airplanes are registered with the Federal govenrment, not the states........

What do you think it costs to register an airplane?????

$500 per year........

$200 per year.......

no, your not even close.........

Airplane registration: $5

(and that's not per year, it's just $5, for as long as you own it)

Oh, I wanted a "special number" with my initials, painted on the side of the plane.........that did cost an extra $15........

See $76 per year to register a motorcycle is a F'ing TAX poorly disguised as a registration.

$5 to register an airplane is fair........Figure it took sombody about a minute's work..........to open up my envelope, type up a piece of paper, rubber stamp it, and postage back to me.....

Cookie

JunkyardDog · 03-14-2010, 04:15 AM

Registering an aircraft is cheap, but a lot of other things come together to keep general aviation out of reach of most people for economic reasons. I was once a private pilot, back in the days when it only took $1500 worth of training to get your license, but their was no way I could ever own an aircraft, other than maybe an ultralight. The costs of buying an aircraft, maintaining it, having it inspected, flying it, insuring it, and storing it are astronomical. I once looked into buying an old Cessna 150 with another guy, the price wasn't that bad, but it hadn't been flown or inspected in years, and needed a lot of work. After doing the math, we gave up the idea. But old cars and bikes are something I CAN keep going forever. Jerry.

**Shadow Shack** · 03-14-2010, 07:28 AM

Nice to know there's at least one thing inexpensive about owning a plane.

But like Jerry says, it's certainly offset by a slew of other costs. Never mind initial purchase (they run about what a house used to cost before the economy tanked, now you cna buy an entire block for what a plane costs LOL), it's the little things that add up, starting with fuel. We all moaned about paying $4+/gallon for gas back in 2008, I imagine the cheapest airplane fuel has to cost at least double that today (sorry if that's inaccurate, it's been forever plus a decade since I've been on a flightline).

**twocoolgliders** · 03-14-2010, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JunkyardDog

Registering an aircraft is cheap, but a lot of other things come together to keep general aviation out of reach of most people for economic reasons. I was once a private pilot, back in the days when it only took $1500 worth of training to get your license, but their was no way I could ever own an aircraft, other than maybe an ultralight. The costs of buying an aircraft, maintaining it, having it inspected, flying it, insuring it, and storing it are astronomical. I once looked into buying an old Cessna 150 with another guy, the price wasn't that bad, but it hadn't been flown or inspected in years, and needed a lot of work. After doing the math, we gave up the idea. But old cars and bikes are something I CAN keep going forever. Jerry.

Yes, airplanes are an expensive hobby, so are boats, women, gambling etc.

Motorcycles are generally not expensive to own and operate. When you figure in the fun per hour per dollar cost, motorcycles just can't be beat! (One reason motorcycles are so universally popular)

But it is still no excuse for the state to rip me off for $76 for a piece of paper.

BTW........The way I found to be able to afford flying is to become a commercial pilot and a flight instructor. Giving "scenic rides" and flight instruction does not pay great, but at least you're flying a lot. The few pennies I make get put to flying on my own. I also belong to flying clubs where the expenses are spread out over many members.

Cookie

**PhilipJ** · 03-14-2010, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twocoolgliders

Yes, airplanes are an expensive hobby, so are boats, women, gambling etc. ...
Cookie

... reminds me of the joke George Best (Irish soccer player who many say was the best player ever ... but who LOVED his booze) made about his lifestyle:

"Oh, yeah, I spent half my fortune on women and booze ... the other half I just wasted"

Our Communities

Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Marine Communities

Honda Rebel News Delivered to your Email!