Rebel a Decent Ride? - Page 2

JunkyardDog · 03-05-2010, 03:11 AM

I have been riding on the street for 35 years, and have owned 44 bikes, from huge to tiny. I have over 400,000 miles on the street. I rode dirt since I was 8, and still do. First of all, I wouldn't have the slightest problem riding an HD, or any other bike to work at Honda, and if they complained, I'd tell them where they could shove it, and leave.

But about the Rebel. I am on my third one. First one bought new in '85, and sold 2 years later. Second one, another '85, and a nice one, bought about a year and a half ago, and stolen out of a parking lot about a month later. I now have an '04. The Rebel has about the power you would expect from a 250, and handles very well. For me, at 6' 200 pounds, it had one major shortcoming. I didn't fit on it. It is much more cramped than a standard style 250, like a Nighthawk. But after looking things over, I decided 99% of the problem was the footpegs. I fabricated brackets that relocated the footpegs 4" farther forward. Now it fits me very well. If you are smaller, it may fit you ok stock. It is not nearly as comfortable as my Kawasaki Vulcan 750, but that is one of, if not the most comfortable bike I've ever had. I've put over 125,000 miles on 2 of them. Jerry.

**Shadow Shack** · 03-05-2010, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreezyRider

FYI, I don't work for a dealer, I work for the plant.

Well, unless Lee Iacocca is calling the shots, I wouldn't sweat what you bring to work

Besides, Honda pulled out of making bikes here last year (and it seems they're trying real hard to pull out of motorcycles altogether for the North American market), so if you really wanted to ride something with two wheels made by the Honda plant, you'd have to walk LOL

JunkyardDog · 03-07-2010, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Shack

Well, unless Lee Iacocca is calling the shots, I wouldn't sweat what you bring to work

Besides, Honda pulled out of making bikes here last year (and it seems they're trying real hard to pull out of motorcycles altogether for the North American market), so if you really wanted to ride something with two wheels made by the Honda plant, you'd have to walk LOL

Yeah, and it's really a shame. Honda used to have a decent share of the U.S. motorcycle market, especially when you included dirt bikes and ATVs. But they no longer make much of anything anybody wants, plus they are simply pricing themselves out of business. The attitude and shady business practices of their dealers hasn't helped matters either. Jerry.

**Fridgitator** · 03-07-2010, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JunkyardDog

Yeah, and it's really a shame. Honda used to have a decent share of the U.S. motorcycle market, especially when you included dirt bikes and ATVs. But they no longer make much of anything anybody wants, plus they are simply pricing themselves out of business. The attitude and shady business practices of their dealers hasn't helped matters either. Jerry.

It really looks like they are focusing on other markets. I can't really blame them for doing so if that's what it takes to keep them profitable. Unfortunately, profit seems to define success anymore.

**Shadow Shack** · 03-07-2010, 09:36 AM

Well, it wasn't too long ago that Honda motorcycles was very profitable. Up until 2003, they had a nearly two decade streak going neck and neck with Harley Davidson for total U.S. market share, each reigning in about 25% of the total market. Yes, half of the bikes sold in the USA between 1985 to 2003 came from Honda and Harley.

Since 2003, Honda has steadily dropped total market share while Harley, Kawasaki, Suzuki, and Yamaha have all made considerable gains in that short span. During the mid-90s, Honda's full line brochure was literally like a book. After 2003, they canned enough models sans replacing them with anything new to the point that their full line could fit on an index card.

JunkyardDog · 03-07-2010, 11:47 AM

That's what makes me wonder if there is some new leadership at Honda. I see no reason Honda could not continue to be profitable here, if they just had anything to sell that people wanted, and sold it at fair prices. I went to the Honda site, and only found 2 bikes I wanted, one completely out of my price range, and the other too expensive for what it was. Nothing else of any interest. They can't blame it all on the economy either, all the manufacturers are hurting because of the economy, but are still hanging in there. Not only has Honda dropped many desirable models, but some of their new models are absurd, like the $15,000 DN-01, and the Fury. And look at their Interstate and Sabre models. Are they trying to compete with the Harley clone builders? They also have a $4500 150cc scooter that is nothing but a copy of the Kymco People S200, for $1500 more, placing it in the same price bracket as the Vespa LX150. No way is Honda going to compete with Vespa with a plastic scooter. Honda desperately needs some reasonably priced "normal" motorcycles. I would almost certainly buy a new CB750 Nighthawk, if it were priced at $6000, because it would probably be my last chance to get a real "standard" motorcycle. Jerry.

**Shadow Shack** · 03-07-2010, 05:32 PM

Simply put, Honda prided themselves too much on the VTX. After a brief term of advertising the Valkyrie as "the biggest motorcycle engine on the planet" (which eventually got shot down by Yamaha's Road Star by a hundred ceecees), they went all out over the "900 + 900 = You do the math" and that got shot down even quicker courtesy of Triumph's Rocket III.

Rather than commit themselves to offering bikes tht people wanted, Honda instead hoisted that flagship VTX onto a pedestal and canned everything else with hopes to direct buyers to it by default. They clung onto that far too long, popping out new combinatrions of fenders/pipes/wheels each year to breath new life into a stale seller. It was only the artificial success of its smaller 1300cc sibling (which sold more for its overall size/price point/rideability than style) that pushed them to hold onto the 1800cc failure longer. And of course the final straw to that formula was dumbing down the 750 line (minus one carb and less efficient shaft drive) only to follow that up with the fenders/pipes/wheels treatment on the Spirit version of the Aero (aka "Spaero"). Magazines were already touting the 600 VLX as "anemic" thanks to the advent of mega inch bikes, and the 750 suddenly became a slower bike than the 600 at $1000 more in sticker price. So what does Honda do? Nix the less expensive/faster bike.

Long answer made short, Honda kept regurgitating the same thing over and over again with absolutely no variety while everyone else was actually releasing new models and selling their popular older models as well.

**Fridgitator** · 03-07-2010, 09:49 PM

I don't know what is going on with the personnel changes, but it seems like after a series of bad choices, and years since any real innovation in the cycle division, they are just playing it safe. If I had any influence there, I'd be looking for some innovative designers. Sell off the old dog stock at a loss; just get rid of it. Hold onto the good products, and roll out some new designs. Don't make 100,000 of anything before it proves to have a market.

**Shadow Shack** · 03-08-2010, 07:10 AM

The DN-01 is definitely anything but playing it safe.

While the deisgnation stands for "Dream New", dealerships across the country have redubbed it as "Do Not Order 1".

JunkyardDog · 03-08-2010, 11:58 AM

Amazing how much damage one model could do. IMO, for now anyway, Honda should just bring back some of their older models, like the Nighthawk 750, the Magna 750, the VLX600, the Shadow 1100 Spirit, and possibly the Valkyrie. And they should adjust their pricing structure, so people could actually afford them. I think that would tide them over until they could come up with some new "realistic" models, that people would want, and could afford. The DN-01 is a complete joke. What were they thinking? A Goldwing price for a weird looking 700cc scooter? Honda needs to put somebody in charge who knows at least something about the motorcycle business, and the American market. Oh well, if they leave, we still have Kawasaki, Yamaha, and Suzuki. Jerry.

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