Going To do my own work need some help. 1986 CMX450C

[jwarren]

Hello all my follow Rebel Riders,

Today I put my first chain on a Motorcycle..I want to thank everyone here on this sight for the postings that I pursed they helped me out. So thank you all. But now on to some new business. I have some issues that need addressed so that I can begin to ride. Please note I have purchased a OEM Service manual and I am awaiting its delivery Directly from Honda

1. Fork seal left fork. Has oil coming out. I have bought new seals from Honda Dealer. I have one set here still waiting the other set. Figured I would do both sides. What type of oil and how much for the forks? And since I will have the rims/tires off for replacement nows the time so any help here. I would be greatful.

2. Proper way to change Engine oil and filter?

3. I need to remove carbs to replace insulators and orings to cyclinder heads both left and right. Any help here on what to take off first and what I need to know about my carbs.

4. Left hand carb is leaking this nasty stuff out of it almost like fuel and glue. I bought a new gasket kit and float I was a little pissed at dealership parts guy for not telling me that this was not a rebuild kit. All parts have to be bought independently. So any help here the bike does run, idle is low and will shut down even after warmed up will start right back up , also pops when shifting IE let off the throttle a little at speeds.

Note I have an appointment to have local shop not Honda ,to adjust the valves and sync the carbs but must have the new insulators in first and leak repaired on carb also. My service manual is due in next week but must have bike to shop by this Friday.

[Big_J]

We have several 450'ers here that I am sure will be able to shed some light on your questions. Most work is no so much hard as is it is tedious, which makes most people decide no to do it themselves. The rebel is an easy to work on bullet proof bike, I think you are doing the right thing by trying the work yourself.

[GearJammer]

Welcome jwarren........You've done the right thing in ordering the Honda OEM Service Manual. The manual for one's own bike is one of the most valuable tools in your shop.

1) Fork seals......Again, you're doing the right thing in replacing both at the same time, working on one fork leg & then the other. When your manual arrives, you'll be able to read thru the section on replacing fork seals & then simply follow the instructions step by step. The manual will also provide the fork oil capacity. (I've got bad fork seals on my 450, have the new seals, haven't done the work yet & may sell the bike, so I'm not sure if I'll be doing the work or just passing the new seals onto whoever buys the bike & let them do it). Some will swear by actual "fork oil" (oftentimes 10W) due to some emulsifiers (right word ?) in the fork oil to sustain the rubber components, others will use cherry juice (Automatic Transmission Fluid, ATF) & one indie shop owner who I know personally has no problem with using the ATF.......Tires: These are tubeless tires, there's a wide variety to choose from & you can either order online....Southwest Moto Tires in Tucson, www.jcwhitney.com, others places may be recommended......Price range is up to you. Personally, I don't have any problem using economy brand tires, theory being that ALL tires are required to "meet or exceed safety standards".

2) Oil & oil filter change.....I've found cheaper oil filters at Checkers, they have a cross reference guide & there's one posted somewhere on this site with a list of aftermarket oil filters that will work for your application......Warm up bike to operating temp, shut her down. Remove the oil filler plug, remove oil drain plug, which is the plug on the bottom left side of the motor. After oil has drained, wipe off drain plug & reinstall, torqueing to spec (I believe it's around 25-27 ft. lbs.) Remove oil filter housing bolt on the bottom right side of motor, which allows the filter housing to be removed. Wipe off inside of housing, install new oil filter element and housing gasket, torqueing to spec. Add oil (cheapo 10W40 is fine) thru oil filler recess. After adding 2 qts., continue adding a little at a time while alternately placing the filler plug/oil level stick into the recess WITHOUT screwing it in. Once proper level has been achieved, button it up. Fire up the bike & check for leaks.

3 & 4) Carbs......This is something you may or may not want to try to tackle yourself once your manual arrives. If Snorey is reading this, he's done the carb rebuild/cleaning & can provide some very helpful info on this. The popping noise could be an air leak due to bad insulators or O-rings. Not sure what the left carb is leaking or from where, but it also sounds like the carbs need a good cleaning before the shop were to try to sync 'em anyways. The shop would probably be willing to do the carb cleaning/rebuild for you, but it wouldn't be cheap due to the labor, which is why if you've got the patience, it might be best to tackle it on your own.......Same/same on the valve adjustments. You can either have the shop do it or you could wait until your manual arrives & do it yourself.

[jwarren]

Thank you Big J and GearJammer for your input. Will consider doing the valve job myself and the Carb rebuild I have done a many Chevy and small engine IE briggs&stratton carbs rebuild but never a moto

[Snorebaby]

Hey jwarren and welcome.

Thanks GJ for mentioning me LOL!

Seriously, I have read your post jwarren and can help you with any problems (I hope I can) you might run into as I have done basically the same thing you are going through. Mine sat for 14yrs before I pulled her back out and got her roadworthy.

I will have to post some info tomorrow to make sure it is correct, I am at work tonight and my manual is at home.

But to get ya started, here it goes!!

1) Fork seals are a snap!! I have not done the Rebel but my 'Wing has the same style forks and just did them a month or so ago. Make sure you have the front of the engine supported and the bike level. Of course, remove the wheel and brake caliper (hang the caliper from the handlebars with some string). On the bottom outside of the fork tube is the drain plug to drain the oil. I used 20wt in my 'Wing but for the Rebel I would use either 10wt or 15wt. I bought Fork Oil. It says ATF but I use the Fork Oil instead. Now is where I am not positive on the Rebel Forks. There may be a bolt on the bottom of the tube where the axle rides. If there is remove this bolt. It has a crush washer that will need to be replaced. Any cycle shop will have them and they are cheap. A Kawasaki dealer actually gave me 2 of them. Once this bolt is removed, you can take the top fork nut off to remove the springs. Be careful as the spring is under tension and the cap may go flying. Then remove the dust seal (just carefully pry it up) and there is a snap-ring that is holding the seal in place. You will need to carefully remove the snap-ring (go to Harbor Freight and buy a cheap pair of snap-ring pliers to do this). Once it is removed, all you gotta do is yank the bottom tube (slider) from the upper tube.....That is why you make sure the bike is upright and supported well!! LOL! The seal should pop out the lower tube and remain on the upper tube. There should be split bushings on the upper tube now that the lower is off. These need to be taken off to get the seal off. They have a split on one side and GENTLY pry the split apart JUST ENOUGH to slide the bushing off the fork. The seal and dust sheild should come off easily. Then notice how the seal was positioned on the tube and put the new one on the tube just like that. CLEAN,CLEAN, CLEAN.....oh.... did I mention clean very well? You don't want to get dirt or debris and ruin a good job!!!

Well I gotta run right now, remember I am at work....I will post more tomorrow. I will have my manual handy to refer to!

Hope this helps!

[Snorebaby]

I got a minute so here is a parts view of the forks. Do 1 fork at a time so parts and things don't get mixed up. If you haven't already ordered the seals/dust seals (should come as a set), have them in hand prior to starting the job. Also you should go ahead and order both bushings as they are cheap enough and since you have it apart, go ahead and replace them for piece of mind.

Edit:
The fork fluid capacity is 363.5 - 368.5cc (or 12.3 - 12.5 US oz.)

Actually the only bushing that needs to be removed is the slider bushing that moves up and down on the fork tube. To reinstall is just the reverse of the disassembly. The only thing to do different is to temp. install the spring/spacer so you can tighten up the bottom bolt. To set the seal you will need a seal driver. A schedule 40 PVC coupling works nice. Take a fork diameter measurement and get a coupling that will fit around it. Cut the coupling in half so you can get it on the fork and use it as a slide hammer. Works great and no chance of scratching anything. The dust seal is easy to put in by hand. You might have to tap it in. Once the forks are back together, remove the springs and add the oil. The springs go in with the tight wound end down.

The torque values are (these are all in ft-lb):

Front Axle Nut - 40-47
Front Axle Holder Nut - 13-18
Fork Piston Socket Bolt - 11-18 (apply blue Loc-tite lightly to the threads -- NOT THE RED LOC-TITE)
Fork Tube Cap - 11-22
Front Brake Caliper Bracket Bolt - 14-22

[jwarren]

Thank you Snorey,

Right now I have tire and rims off dropping them off today to get new tires installed and will pick up my other seal set for the left fork for Honda this afternoon after work. I will try to tackle the forks this weekend still wiating on Honda to deliver OEM Service manual..so some of the things so far have been by the seat of my pants..lol but hey no worries with the help of you all I will get through all the repairs that need to be done an get back on the road..

[Snorebaby]

No thanx needed.....glad I can help!

I will post some info on the carbs on Friday...they are a PIA to get off and on! I did get good at it as I probably done it 5 or 6 times LOL!!

[Snorebaby]

jwarren....here is a previous post of the carb removal http://www.hondarebelforum.com/showthread.php?t=599