Getting Carbs Off a 450

[HotShott]

Is there some thing I'm missing here? I undid the hose clamps that connect the carbs to the engine and loosened the throttle cables, but the dang things won't come off. I can't get a rachet onto the bolts that hold the rubber gaskets onto the engine, because the carbs are in the way. I can wiggle the carbs up and down a little, but not side to side, and they won't move front to back at all. Is it just the fact that they haven't been off in at least 10 years, maybe more, and they're being stubborn? Or did I miss disconnecting something?

[Snorebaby]

You will have to get bolts on the flanges off the cyl. side of the carbs...either 6mm or 8mm wrench (dang...I know I put that in my memory somewhere :? !) is the only way. Then you will have to pull back on the carbs (toward the rear wheel which will compress the intake boots enough for you to move the carbs) and kinda push down at the same time. It is not easy the first time it is done. You may have to CAREFULLY pry the flanges from the cyl. before the carbs can be pulled back. Do you have a Clymer's manual? It is better than myself in explaining how to do it. I will get my book tomorrow and post the instructions if needed.

The flanges are a "press fit". That is...they fit onto the carbs like a press top on a milk jug. They have to be carefully "pried" off the carb and "pressed" back on. You press them on by hand, just make sure they "snap" into place or you will not be able to put the carbs back.

When I first removed my carbs, it took me about 30 mins.(No book and never done it before!!) But after learning the technique, it only takes about 5 mins. (Got book and trial and error learnin' LOL)

I hope that this helps....keep us posted on the outcome!

[HotShott]

The bolts are 8mm. But when I tried getting them off with a wrench, they started trying to round off instead of turning. I hit 'em with some WD-40 and let it soak overnight, and still no luck this morning. Anybody have suggestion?

[Snorebaby]

That's not good! Sounds like someone may have put a little Loc-Tite on them. I'm not sure of a good way to get them off, other than maybe a pair of vise grips. They are rather soft bolts, so if you don't want to break them off by accident, you may want to take it to an indie shop and have them removed. I know it will cost, but if they break a bolt off, they will have the tools to remove the broken bolt.

You may want to give it another shot of WD-40 and wait another day. Sometimes, if you give it a little tug in the tightening direction, it will break it loose enough to be able to take them out.

Anyone else have a suggestion?!!

[HotShott]

Thanks, I'll try that.

When I eventually do get them off and then go to put them back on, do I need to put Loc-Tite back on them? I guess that question goes for all the bolts I'll end up putting back on the bike.

[Snorebaby]

No Loc-Tite!!! Unless you use the blue loc-tite on bolts that are subject to heavy vibration....and I don't know of any that would qualify for that. The best book(s) for any repair of the 450 is the Clymer's manual and the Honda Factory Service Manual. You can find the Clymer's just about anywhere (got mine on ebay) and the HFSM can be bought on ebay (sometimes) or go to www.helminc.com

The Clymer's has some errors in it regarding the 450 Rebel, so I suggest buying the HFSM & Clymer's. Well worth the investment!!

If you round out the bolt heads, I suggest replacing them with allen head cap bolts...that way all you need is an allen wrench to take them out and you are less likely to round out the heads.

[HotShott]

I ordered my Clymer's on Sun, just haven't gotten it yet. Thanks.

[glw]

I routinely replace the nuts with nuts that have the nylon insert. No Loctite needed and they come off without a problem.

[wheezeburnt]

Guys, the 'standard' way of removing carbs from the 450 rebel includes loosening the airbox and moving it backward, so you will have room to remove the carbs from their rubber flanges (after loosening the hose clamps) without undoing the 8 mm bolts at the head.

Of course, to loosen the airbox, you need to remove the battery box and the black triangular cover plate behind the battery box.

If the way you are doing it works, its a LOT less work than the factory-approved way.

brent

[Snorebaby]

I have tried the factory way....WAY too much work!!LOL!! It's really easier to do it the other way. I can have the carbs off in about 5 minutes. The hardest part is getting them back into the boots when installing them! I have gotten "pretty good" at doing this when I was getting her ready for the road and trying to diagnose problems. Removed and installed them several times :( .

The thing I had a tough time doing was "removing" the head cover to adjust the valves....never did get the dang thing removed...just slid it so that I could get to the valves to adjust them.

[GearJammer]

On the frozen bolts, you might try PB Blaster. Spray can application for loosening stubborn nuts 'n bolts. Some light "taps" on the bolt head while the PB Blaster is being allowed to soak in might help some as well.

[HotShott]

so, if I don't need to remove the rubber flanges to get the carbs off, do they just pull or "pop" out of them? If I could get the carbs seperated from the flanges, then I could get a socket on the bolts to make getting them off a little easier. The airbox is already off the bike and out of the way. ( About the only thing left on the bike at this point are the carbs and the engine.)

[Snorebaby]

If the airbox is out of the way, then all you should have to do is push down on the backside of the carbs and the flanges should pop off. They are rubber coated steel flanges.

[wheezeburnt]

If the airbox is out of the way, then all you should have to do is push down on the backside of the carbs and the flanges should pop off. They are rubber coated steel flanges.

Yep, that's the way to do it. Man, if you've actually got the airbox off, you should have NO problems getting those carbs off. Here's a hint: those rubber boots can get very cantankerous and stiff over time. Try heating them up with a hair dryer (not a heatgun) first, to make them more pliable.

Snorebaby: next time the carbs need to come off my wife's 450, I'm gonna try your technique. Sounds reasonable, and can't be any more frustrating than the manual method. And that valve cover CAN be removed, but you're right: the smart thing to do is just to shove it to one side and do the valves, then go over to the other side an do the same.
Brent

[HotShott]

Let me just make sure I'm clear since there's been some back and forth on it:

I have the airbox off, and the clamps loosened where the carbs connect to the rubber flanges. So I'll heat up the rubber flanges with a hair dryer to soften them up some. Then I push down on the carbs to seperate them from the flanges. Once the carbs are off, I can get to the flanges bolts with a socket and get them off, maybe using some PB Blaster to help loosen the bolts. Then, once the bolts are off, I might need to pry the flanges away from the head.

That sound right?

[wheezeburnt]

Nope, its simpler than that.
Disconnect the large (about 1" diameter) rubber pipe from the head to the rear of the engine. Detach the vacuum hoses (1/4" diameter) from the head.
Loosen the band clamps (two per carb; one inlet, one outlet) on all four rubber boots(right up against the carb bodies. ). Then just push the carb bodies down and forward at the back til they clear the rear rubber boots, then pull the carbs backward to release them from the front boots. Slide the carbs to the left side enough to clear the body of the bike, and remove the two throttle cables and the choke cable (lable them 'choke', 'push', 'pull'). You don't need to touch those bolts that go into the head, because you just leave the front boots attached to the head, and the rear boots attached to the airbox. When its time to re-assemble, heat and grease the rubber boots again .

brent

[HotShott]

I got it now.
Thanks a lot for all the info guys.

[Snorebaby]

Your welcome. Glad I (we) could help!! If you have to do it more than once, you will become proficeint at it! LOL!

[HotShott]

Finally got back to the bike today and I got 'em off. Just pushed down on 'em a little harder than I had been, and they popped right off. Once the carbs were out of the way, I got a socket on the flange bolts, and they came off easy as pie.

Thanks.