Rebel 450

[boggs74]

I am new here to this site, allthough i have browsed through it many times. I ride an 1987 rebel 450c. I personally think the hd sportster has nothing on it, basicly because many of my friends ride them and i am the only one that hasn't had to put my bike in the shop. Unfortunatly I am going to have to sell my Rebel, I just don't have time to ride anymore and i really don't want the bike to waste away. It is sorta hard to let it go but im sure everyone has been there before.

[GearJammer]

Welcome aboard, boggs74!

Definitely hear ya about the newer 883's. The 450 Reb can keep up no problem & I suspect the 450 Rebel might even be able to outgun the 883's. I'm not into drag racing, but have put the bike thru it's paces & got her up to 97 mph. Our bud with his '05 883 got his up to 94 mph. Have read on www.bikez.com that his model 883 is rated at 94 mph TOP speed.....hehehe.....

Guess it's the newer EPA regs holding his back along with the relative power to weight ratio.

Bummer that you have to sell your Rebel, Brother! Any chance that if by simply storing it for awhile, your schedule might open up a bit again & allow you the time needed to ride ?

If not, hey...no reason you can't continue posting here. Good people are always welcome! :wink:

[boggs74]

Thnx for the welcome gearjammer. I will still stay on with this site, I like what you guys have got going here. As far as keeping my 450, I have gave it alot of thought but it is to hard to leave my little boys behind to go for a ride. Guilty concience i guess. Thinking about getting 4 wheelers for me and the boys, we have alot of places we can ride arround here. Being that the bike is in mint condition i figured i might as well sell while the getting is good. I do have an eye on some honda 4 wheelers so i guess you can say im loyal to the honda brand! lol

[GearJammer]

LOL! Honda = Dependability......never a doubt.

Agreed. cTc has done an excellent job of providing a place that's comfortable to hang out & that's much appreciated, as well as downright REFRESHING! LMAO!

I fully respect your decision & it's great to be able to involve your sons in the enjoyment of off-roading. It's all good........ :wink:

[GearJammer]

Boggs, Have been thinking about your dilema & just wanted to respectuflly offer a few thoughts without meaning any offense.

As mentioned, it's great that you're gong to invest the valuable time spent with your sons & that's of paramount importance. If you need to sell the Rebel in order to buy the 4 wheelers, then I absolutely understand.

But if you have the finances to get the 4 wheelers & still keep the Rebel, couldn't a balance of sorts be achieved ? Quality time 4 wheeling with the sons as well as some time spent riding the Rebel yourself ? We're all entitled to some "alone" time & as you no doubt know, a little saddle-time here & there can be quite healthy.

Just a thought is all......

[boggs74]

i do appreciate advice, and i've been kickin arround that idea. If i do round up the $$ to get the 4 wheelers and keep my bike i'll go that route no doubt about it. These bikes are getting pretty hard to find especially in mint condition. I've tried postin pics of my bike but it keeps saying its to big of a file and i still ain't learned how to compress it!! lol shows how well i do computer work i guess.

[GearJammer]

WHAT ? You mean that I'm not the only one who doesn't know a whole lot about computer stuff ? ROTFLMAO!!!!!!

Snorey & cTc are pretty dang good at this stuff & hopefully can offer some pointers...

[GearJammer]

Yo Boggs, Wanted to ask you about something from earlier in this thread. I agree with what you've said about the H-D Sportsters ending up in the shop more frequently than the 450 Rebel. My bud's stock 2005 883 has been in the shop 4 times in the past 6 months. This 450 Rebel ? Not once (knock on wood)

I was recently having a problem with missing 3rd now & then, but since changing my shifting technique, it hasn't been a problem since. Had been in the habit of moving my left foot from the highway peg to the shifter & back to the highway peg between each shift. Now I keep my left foot on the rider's peg during the 1st thru 4th shifts & haven't been missing that 3rd gear shift.

But here's where the question comes in: I ride frequently with this Bro with the '05 883. When I was doing the casual shifting of back 'n forth between highway peg & shifter, I noticed that from an off-the-line start, he'd pull ahead a considerable distance & I'd just play casual catch-up. Now that I'm keeping the left foot on the rider's peg & shifting in a more regular groove, I noticed that I'm keeping pace with him off-the-line.

He & I aren't into drag racing & haven't ever gone for it against each other off-the-line, but I'm wondering if you & some of your buds with Sporties have ever gone for it for grins & giggles ? LOL!

Just wondering if you have, how did the Rebel do against the Sporties ?

[boggs74]

I have noticed in the past that if your foot is out of position misshifts do happen. On mine if im not square under the shifter it sometimes has problems, so i do what you started doing, i keep my foot on the riders peg until i'm done shifting then i use the highway pegs. Now as far as running against the 883 i have a bit of an advantage, the original owner of the bike changed sprokets on it. I dont know what he did but i have enuff on take off to leave most 883's behind. It wont blow their paint off but i can pull away pretty steadily. When i tired to see how the bikes top end was, i let off after the spedo was max'ed out. It did have plenty of throttle left in her. Hell i have thought about running pipes on her then rejeting tha carbs and maybe even a k&n perfomance air filter, if i do those mods the 883 wouldn't stand a chance!! lol I guess it depends on your setup when it comes to perfomance, mine is setup to run with the 883, and i bet with a little tweakin your bud might be chasin rebel taillights!!!! lol

[GearJammer]

Boggs wrote: "and i bet with a little tweakin your bud might be chasin rebel taillights!!!! lol"......ROTFLMAO!!!!!

Thanx for that info, Brother! Your experience in running against the Sporties is pretty much what I'd figured it might be. Not bad for a 20 yr. old bike vs. a new one, eh ? LMAO!

I'm running straight pipes on this Reb, but have left the airbox on for the time being. With the pipe change & keeping the airbox, haven't had to re-jet.

Am seriously considering losing the airbox, re-jetting, running pod filters.....a lot like what you're considering. That would probably bump the hp up from the stock 38 hp rating to approx. 44 hp.

Sprocket change, eh ? Hmmmm......now that's another possibility for a future mod. Pull up at a light next to a Sporty & say "Hey, Bro, care to dance" ? :twisted: ROTFLMAO!!!

Thanx again, Boggs!

Ride Safe......

[PuddlePirate]

:D While reading this thread, I just had to laugh. I own both a 86 Rebel 450 and a 01 883 Sportster, and the idea that a Rebel is faster is a joke. If you can beat someone either off the line or top end, they're apparently either incompetent riders or afraid to take it up to the redline. I'll put my 883 up against a 450 any day of the week. If any of you guys live in Maine, I'd love to ride with you. :P

Many sportster owners change out the trans sprocket from the stock 27 to the 29, for a higher top end. With my stock 27, I have hit 100 a couple of times when riding with some of the guys I work with that own sportbikes. If the rider that Boggs is talking about did change sprockets, the of course his acceleration would suffer slightly, but it would give him more top end. He would have no problem getting up over 100-115, which I doubt very many Rebels could do.

Better reliability? Possibly. The only problem I've ever had with the sportster is the speedo was giving false readings after about 50 miles. Covered under warranty, no problems in the 6 years, 11k+ miles since then. The oil leakage problems that people like to refer to were typical of the pre-evolution engine. Since the Evo engine, problem solved. I'm sure you may hear about more Sportster problems since there are a whole bunch more Sportsters than there are Rebels.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the Rebel, I just think that this thread was pretty funny. :lol:

[GearJammer]

"Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the Rebel, I just think that this thread was pretty funny. "

hehehe........maybe not as funny as you think :wink:

The stock rating for your '01:

53 hp
Top Speed 104 mph
Weight 518 lbs.

The stock rating of the '05 I rode with:

50 hp
Top Speed 94 mph
Weight 553 lbs.

Stock rating of this '86 Reb:

38 hp (straight pipes, maybe more like 40 hp)
Top Speed (couldnt' find the spec, but I've had it up to 97 mph & have no doubt it would have pegged out at 100 mph.
Weight 380 lbs.

Figure in the power to weight ratio & I kid you not. His '05 883 had nuthin' on this Reb.

I'm not knocking Sporties per se, even considering getting a 1200 Sporty, but the 450 Rebel is no slouch.

And welcome to the board, PuddlePirate! LMAO!

[boggs74]

man i wish i lived in maine, i honestly don't think you'd be laughing as hard. The last time I tried out the top speed of my bike i had a buddy follow me on his katana, not trustin my speedometer. Results were surprising. Mine said 110 his said 115. Regardless thats enough to run with just about any 883. I haven't got arround to rejettin, adding a performance breather, or changin pipes yet. All thats been done is the sproket change.. Funny, if not witnessed maybe. If your ever goin to be in southern illinois, leave a post. I'd be glad to show you what it is made of.I'm sure with the right mods an 883 won't be a slug either. I've riden both i prefer the 450, to each their own i guess.

[PuddlePirate]

Right on. Those numbers sound pretty close. I've done the pipes/K&N/rejet deal on the 883, and supposedly doing those changes alone will net you around 10RWHP more.
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hplist_evo_sporty_stock.htm
Doing the same thing on the 450 will only get you a couple, in part due to not having as many cubes to play around with in the first place. 450vs900

I'll be the first to admit that the stock 883 is relatively weak from a performance standpoint. Add in $150 worth of pipes/air filter/rejet, which 90% of Harley owners do off the bat, and the extra 10 RWHP makes a big difference. Is the 40 hp you're quoting rear wheel or engine? I'm putting out around 56hp and 50ftlb to the rear wheel. Not overly powerful, but noticeably more than 38hp to the crank, which figures close to somewhere around 32RWHP. Any idea on the torque figure? Probably somewhere in the 20s.

Boggs, I do believe that you may have made it up over 100 with a different sprocket, but how long did it take you to get there and how high was your engine screaming when you got there? My wife's 450 is no crotch rocket. Yes it does have a surprising top end for a 450, but it takes its time getting there.
What part of southern IL are you in? I've got family in El Dorado, Saline County. I might be able to get out that way eventually, but no time soon, having just started here about a month ago (military).

Again, I'M NOT TRYING TO FLAME HERE, but I think it is almost like apples/oranges. The Rebel 450 does move, remember I do own one, but most any 883 will take it, given two riders of the same skill level. The Sportster has twice the engine, and its geared pretty low. Up to about 70mph, it is pretty darn fast. I honestly would be surprised to see even a rejetted Rebel 450 keep up.

I REPEAT: I like the Rebel 450. I am not saying that it is slow. I'm saying that I find it hard to believe that it is faster than a 883 Sportster, on acceleration or top end. I am not dissing your/my bike, I just thought it was funny that several people have compared the Reb 450 to the 883 in several different threads. It is like apples and oranges to me.

[boggs74]

Eldorado ain't far from me. I myself am a former army brat so i know what you mean by not knowing when you'll be through. Please do drop a line on the boards when you do come through, i'd be glad to go for a ride with a soldier, whether we are trying to show up each other or not. :lol: Hopefully by this time next year I'll get my other mods done( pipes rejetting performance air intake) I'll be keeping all the stock parts, just incase i decide to go back to them, after all the bike was only made 2 yrs., because harley sued to get it shut down.. gee i wonder why they'd do that?? lol sorry had to take the jab. Your relatives here in the area are just a short drive down the highway so please feel free to let me know when and i'd be glad to meet up with you and go for a ride. Till then i guess we will just be believers in our own favorite bikes

[boggs74]

oh sorry forgot to respond to how long it took, can't give ya an exact time on how long it took me to get to the speed i met, i'm sure my buddy on his sport bike was having to hold back. lol All i can tell you when i went against the 883, i steadily pulled away, didn't blow his paint off by no means. but my bike had a whole lot more than his did. I had a little left when i did the top end test, but the one thing i don't like about the bike kept creeping in my mind. that would be the tire size. I prefer wider tires, but no room on the 450 custom to increase them without some serious modifications. Next time i'm out i'll put a stop watch on it to see.

[GearJammer]

The rule of thumb that I go by is that by opening up pipes & altering airbox, rejetting, etc....will add approx. 15% of any bike's hp rating. Admittedly, I don't know if that's RWHP or not & I'm not interested in dyno racing. Your 883 has been modified & that obviously changes things. There's also a reason that the 1200 kit is offerred for the 883.....*ahem*....

The only performance mods on my 450 are straight pipes & lowered shocks. The airbox is stock. The sprockets are stock. I hit 97 mph before running out of room and as mentioned, have no doubt it would have pegged out at 100 mph.

The '05 883 is bone stock & he topped out at 94 mph.

His is a 5 spd., the 450 Reb is a 6 spd.

He's also carrying 130 lbs. more weight. Rider-wise, we're about the same height/weight. His bike is one year old. The '86 Reb is 20 yrs. old & I could keep pace with him no problem. I'm not making this stuff up. Just responding to what you initially posted.

Edit: On a side note.........

He paid $9400 brand new out-the-door.
I paid $800 used.

I can see where his ego might have gotten bruised when his $9400 brand new 883 couldn't outrun an $800, 20 yr. old, 450 ~HONDA~ ROTFLMAO!

[GearJammer]

PuddlePirate........Not trying to give you a hard time & please feel free to join in for questions/answers about the 450 Reb.

All bikes have their good points, bad points, to each their own. But Boggs & I aren't spinning any tales here. No, the 450 Rebel isn't a Gixxer, but it IS a viable machine.

I've owned Harleys before & dug 'em. They've always had the "cool" factor going for them, but "cool" doesn't always = "fastest bike on earth". Am seriously considering a newer 1200 Sporty, it's got respectable specs, but I know it still wouldn't be the fastest thing on 2 wheels.

One of the reasons H-D came out with the Sporty was H-D's attempt to outrun the Triumph 650's. Back in the day, stock Sporties could have closer to 60-61 hp. It used to bug the Sporty guys when a Triumph 650, weighing in at 365 lbs., 43-47 hp (depending on single or dual carbs) would STILL clean their clocks. There's that power to weight ratio again........Honda came out with the CB750 & that bike got people's attention. Kawasaki came out with the KZ900 & forget it! Both Harley & Triumph had to step aside, along with a host of others. At that time I owned a Triumph triple, capable of 150 mph & the KZ900 would SMOKE it!

Two wheels & a motor.....it's all good.

Ride Safe......

[PuddlePirate]

There's also a reason that the 1200 kit is offerred for the 883.....*ahem*....
Totally agreed. I'm planning on doing that to the 883 this winter, as a relatively inexpensive power upgrade. Should get me from 55rwhp into the high 70s, for only about $400, doing my own wrenchwork. I'm not saying that a Sportster, 883 or 1200, is sportbike fast.

I hope I do get a chance to ride with some of you 450 guys so I can see for myself. My wife won't dog the 450, so I can't compare my two as far as performance goes. From the seat-of-the-pants feeling, the Sportster feels quicker, but unless I clone myself I can't do a true comparison of the two that I own.


Two wheels & a motor, it is all good. It doesn't matter what you ride, it just matters that you do ride.

[GearJammer]

"It doesn't matter what you ride, it just matters that you do ride."

Egg-zak-atally, LMAO!

You'll be more than pleased with the 1200 up-grade. A very close Bro of mine (now deceased) installed one on his younger brother's 883 & transformed it into an entirely different animal.

The 1200 Sporties are dang respectable. My son built an Old School Triumph bobber & just scored himself a '97 1200 Sporty & we can't pry him off of it, LMAO! He's LOVIN' it!

Now I'm looking in that direction as well, mainly based on the current situation of the rarity of the 450 Rebel CDI. Mine's toast & it may be time for a change.

Ride Safe, PuddlePirate & again, welcome aboard! :wink: