What Would You Do ?

[GearJammer]

O.K....bought this other Triumph chopper a couple years back, it's been sitting in the shop waiting while I did the rebuild on the other Triumph & then got pushed aside again while I did the mods on the 450 Rebel.

This project chop has clean Title & was complete, but not running when I got it. Brief inspections showed clean oil when it was drained & it had been last registered in 2001, gas tank had a failed repair job, compression reads low. Other than that, it's got a good design to it, tho' it needs cleaning up, paint, etc.

Since it's not the best of weather to do paint & the shop isn't heated, am debating something here.

Choice A: Do it up from front to rear, top to bottom as needed, changing the aesthetics as I go along & have a finished chop that would only need regular maintainence.

Choice B: Do only what needs to be done mechanically to get her running again, keep the original aesthetic, use an alternate gas tank, run it as a rat bike, then up-grade & clean her up gradually.

Choice A could take months & require dipping into the wallet deeper, Choice B could theoretically take about 2 weeks, barring any unforeseen problems & cost much less.

Am leaning towards rat bike & ride, but am wondering what others might do ?

[cTc]

I dont have a rat bike, but Oh do I want one. If the current rides are up to speed and a rat bike suits your fancy, I'd definately go that route. But a finished chopped triumph is a nice sight to the eye and people around here pay for them. Its a 2 edge sword, but you hold the handle, I'd say, when you look at the bike do the first thing that comes to mind, if it looks like a rat bike, go that way, but if when you look at it you see a resto-finished chop, then that'd be route. I say you cant lose either way.

[GearJammer]

Thanx, CTC...

It dawned on me 2 days ago..."What was I waiting for ?" LOL! The running chop is finished & it's only a matter of keeping up with the maintainence, no aesthetic up-grades needed. The 450 Rebel is modified to a level that I'm very content with & also only requires regular maintainence.

Totally agree with ya, rat bikes are cool! This one has pretty good potential, but the potential could be brought up to snuff a little at time & it'd give me 3 runners to keep me insane! LOL!

[GearJammer]

Have decided to go with the rat bike option, but might get sidetracked here, not sure yet.

Wanted to do some maintainence on the running chop, then the Rebel & then start checking out the project chop. Changed the oil, adjusted the chain on the chop yesterday. Hard starting (again) & could hear the valves tap-dancing during the warm-up ride. Also trying to put another rear wheel with new rubber together for the chop.

Need to adjust the chain on the Rebel & want to check the plugs to see how they're reading. Was going to do that today, but after yesterday's wrenching on the chop, have decided to go back into the Trumpet & check compression/valve adjustment. If everything goes well, will continue with the original plan. If things don't improve, might be looking at another top-end teardown & if that's the case, it's going to be a more expensive proposition than last time. We'll see...

But if it goes O.K. & if I get to the project as hoped, will see if I can get adequate compression on the project. The initial compression check on the project had low #'s, but if they can be brought up to at least 100 psi per cylinder (130-150 psi would obviously be more encouraging, but doubtful), am going to go for it.

Just rambling here while waiting for it to warm up some outside, LOL! but really hoping that the running chop isn't on the verge of trashing my bank account, ROTFLMAO! These old bikes are a "labor of love" & as that Old School parts guy I know said, "Yeah...lots & LOTS of 'labor'"....... :roll:

[Chopper Rick]

Gearjammer, here's a site for you to check out if you decide to go with the rat bike look. www.Ratbike.org You can use it to get some ideas/inspiration from.

[GearJammer]

Thanx, Chopper Rick & GREAT to see you again :wink: Have heard of Rat Bike dot org before. Pretty sure I'd checked out their site a few years ago & it was very cool! I'll give it another looksee.

Checked out the running chop today, compression is good, valve adjustments are dead on. The noisy valves yesterday might have been from the straight 50W that was still in there before the oil change, plus it was dang cold.....*brrrrr*

Did a few minor carb adjustments & she's kicking over just fine now! *whew* LOL!

Back on track, checked the compression on the project. A reading of 110 on the left cyl., 90 on the right. Little dicey, but have decided to just go for it. A valve adjustment might bring those numbers up some, but these old Brits will run on 90 psi compression. Heck, it's cold again & rather than go crazy with cabin fever, would rather work towards seeing if this puppy will fire-up & run.

Actually, Chopper Rick, will pretty much be using the original aesthetic & if all goes well, will up-grade, clean & change things out gradually.

[Chopper Rick]

"Actually, Chopper Rick, will pretty much be using the original aesthetic & if all goes well, will up-grade, clean & change things out gradually."

It sounds like a good plan to me.

[GearJammer]

Getting psyched now, Chopper Rick. Need to adjust the drive chain & check the plug reads on the Rebel, but then am itching to get after the project.

When I was buying it, the guy told me that they'd farmed it out to some local wrenches to try to get it running, but they told him that the "magneto" was toast. I didn't say anything, but there's no magneto on this chop, ROTFLMAO!!! Have a feeling that it was something electrical that stopped this chopper originally. Checked the alternator wires & got good readings. There had been one wire hanging in mid-air off the coil & I don't have a clue what someone was doing with that ??? I tore all the external electricals off back then, intending to start from scratch with known good components, so we'll see, but hoping for the best.

[GearJammer]

Well, this recent cold spell & not being able to work in the shop gave me time to think it over a bit more. Have decided to tear down the top-end & check things out, HOPING to only have to replace rings & gaskets.

Reasoning being, this chop has been sitting for awhile & the gaskets are bound to leak. By going thru & freshening up the top-end, installing new gaskets, cleaning carb, clutch plates, tying in new electrics, etc. it'll look like a rat bike, but should run fairly strong & minimize the chance of leaks.

With a tight motor, the gradual up-grades should only be more of cosmetic up-grades such as paint, chrome cleaning, some changes to the original aesthetic & the like.

The Rebel maintainence that got put off comes first, then it's onto the project chop :wink:

[GearJammer]

O.K....adjusted & lubed the final drive chain on the Rebel, checked the spark plugs, installed a new air filter element. Good to go...

Then started the teardown on the project chop. Removed carb, manifold, both rocker boxes. Letting the other head bolts soak with PB Blaster before trying to remove the head as they're pretty tight from having been left outside before I bought it.

Was pleasantly surprised after removing the rocker boxes, which allowed a good look at the valve stems, springs, guides, pushrods, rockers inside rocker boxes, tappet adjusters. Everything inside looks clean & fairly new! Wouldn't surprise me if the entire top-end had been gone thru shortly before it stopped running (still hoping it was a minor electrical problem that took it out) Once the head & jugs get removed will be able to check out the valve faces, pistons & rings, but so far she's looking very fit! *fingers crossed*

Edit: Well, this rat bike has now turned into a project that I'll be going thru & doing it up right. Hadn't removed the pushrods yesterday, but did today. The tops all look fine, but both bottom cups of the intake pushrods are chipped on the edges. No telling what I'll find when the jugs are taken off. Removed the left exhaust pipe, but the right exhaust clamp is frozen & hitting that with PB Blaster as well, don't want to risk snapping any bolts. Of the 5 remaining head bolts, got 2 of those freed up today. The weather should be warm enough for paint soon (2-3 weeks) so since the rear fender, seat, sissy bar, oil bag, gas tank & electrics are already off since right after I bought it, am just going to build it with my own aesthetic. Worst case scenario would be several months to completion....and will hopefully have it on the road in time before having to go back into the running Trumpet, LMAO!

[GearJammer]

O.K., no more messin' around, she's going to be a rat bike & that's that! ROTFLMAO!

Finally got the frozen head bolts freed up & finished tearing down the top-end. This chopper had definitely had a fresh top-end job shortly before it stopped running.

Rockers, valves, valve guides, valve springs, pistons, piston rings...all new! Now, it had been bored to +.080 over & that's the ultimate limit before having to either go with new barrels or a resleeve, so this is the last go 'round with the current set-up. Valve faces have no carbon build-up, just a slight film. Bores aren't scored at all. Piston crowns have very minor carbon on them. Piston skirts are shiny with absolutely NO blowby, so the rings were doing their job & will be re-using those as well.

The only parts that were damaged were the intake pushrods, so ordered new pushrods & a top-end gasket set. Will be putting this one back together, clean the carb, clean the clutch plates, do the electrics & just go for it.

Will ride it as a rat bike & do any cleaning up or up-grading on a casual basis. Reasoning behind this is the +.080 overbore, which means that once these rings are gone, it'll be time for some serious work & $$$, so at that point in time down the road, the chop can be gone thru more meticulously.

[cTc]

wow, 80 over, someone had plans for it. I cant wait to see a picture of it when its ratmofied. If I ever run up on the right one, I'm getting a rat bike also. I think I found a mid 80's yamaha 1100 for a way to cheap price, it will need a little work its too has been sitting. But we'll see what happens.

Later

[GearJammer]

The standard oversizes for re-boring these old Brits by the "purists" are .010, .020 & .040, but there's some aftermarket oversizes like .030, .060 & this .080 that some go with to extend the life of the barrels. Doesn't make any sense to me to give it up after .040, as there's still plenty of miles to pull out of 'em.

Hope that Yamaha pans out for ya, cTc! One of my buds (a Harley guy) scored an old Midnight Special from the '80's, 1100cc pretty sure & he LOVES it! Made him think twice about that "Harley only" mindset, LMAO!

[cTc]

I thought the 80 sounded a bit much

I hope to get my hands on the YaHa pretty soon, the guy is on the road so much I only have 1 or 2 days a week to catch up with him, and it usually dosent work out for one of us.

But we'll see.

[GearJammer]

Yep, that .080 over has the sleeve in the bore at the max limit & probably won't run this one as hard as the other (.030 over) But once this one has reached it's limit, have another set of jugs with plenty of bore left, just like to get as much mileage as possible before up-grading.

Do you know what model Yamaha it is ? I hadn't paid much attention to Japanese bikes during the Harley/Brit years. Never disliked 'em, just never really knew much about 'em other than the Jap bikes would run forever. Since getting that 250 Rebel, have had some excellent chats with Jap bike riders out there & learning more than I'd ever expected to at this late age. It's all good stuff & it's all definitely the same wind :wink: