250 shocks on 450 ?

[MadRat]

I've heard of people lowering their 450's by installing rear shocks from a 250. Been thinkin' 'bout doing this to mine but I have a few questions. How much will it lower it? (2 in.?) How will it affect the handling of the bike? And is there anything else I would have to do if I installed them? I'd appreciate any input. GearJammer, you did this didn't you??

[GearJammer]

It's a straight swap-out, Brother......I didn't measure it, but had guesstimated maybe a 3" lowering, definitely feels better for flat-footing. Pretty sure the 250 Rebel shocks are 10 1/2" from eyelet to eyelet, not sure of the stock 450 shocks & have since sold 'em so I can't get the exact lowering measurement, but you'd be able to ;)

Handling actually feels better with the lower center of gravity.....but, admittedly, I've never tried ridin' 2-up, so I'm not sure if it'd accommodate a passenger or not without bottoming out.

Please remember to do one side at a time, leaving one in place on the swingarm to avoid having the swingarm collapse. Installed the 250 shocks in the top mount & then had to "encourage" the bottom of the shock into the cradle with a rubber mallet. Really a straightforward mod.

Last thing I did was re-check the final drive tension as the lowering will affect the position of the motor/countershaft sprocket some......

[MadRat]

Thanks GJ, for the info. That is encouraging. I'm watching some 250 shocks, don't know yet if I'll get them. I don't ride 2-up often, but I would hate to give up that option. If the shocks sell within my budget, I'm gonna give it a try. Thanks again. And if anyone else has any input, I'd appreciate it.(when I do carry a passenger, our total weight is about 250 lbs.)

[GearJammer]

Ubetcha......The 2-up question is one that's understandable.

Stock 250 weighing in at around 310 lbs., there's definitely some riders who's body weight is over 200 lbs. & they don't seem to have a problem. But then the 450 is approx. another 70 lbs. bike weight added to your 2-up weight of 250 lbs. I honestly just don't know if it'd bottom out or not.

When you look at the rear fender/rear tire clearance on the stock 450, it's quite a substantial clearance under there. We're getting a brief (hopefully, LOL!) cold snap here, but when I think of it, will try to get a fender/tire clearance measurement for ya with the 250 shocks on the 450. It did drop it noticeably, just not sure yet by how much..........sure makes solid struts something to consider, eh ? LOL! But then the suspension is lost entirely......tho' it'd be quicker off the line, LMAO!

[GearJammer]

Sorry for the delay, MadRat........added some distilled water to the battery, then took her for a blast to re-charge the slightly diluted solution, then remembered to measure the clearance.

It was hard to get my hand up under the fender with a ruler, but I'd say from the top of the rear tire to the underside of the rear fender is "roughly" 2 3/4" clearance.

[MadRat]

Hey, I appreciate ya' goin' to the trouble there, Gearjammer. Sounds good. The auction ended last nite and I got'em. They're off of an 05 with 1600 mi., so they should be in good shape. (I know that's right because they were selling the speedometer too) I think the shock travel for the 250 is about 3 in.
I'll put them on the firmest setting and go from there. I should have 'em within
ten days and on the bike by Spring. LOL

[GearJammer]

Good deal there, they should pretty much be like brand new! ;) And it was no bother a'tall.....happy to help if I could.....

"I should have 'em within
ten days and on the bike by Spring. LOL".......ROTFLMAO!

[sox]

I wouldn't recommend going 2 up with the shock change...
Everytime you hit a bump the tire'll rub on the underside of the fender and burn through the rear brake/running light wires.

That's why I put the Hagon shocks (250 sized) on my 450 and had them put mega hard bump stops in them, so they wouldn't move very much...stiff ride but I can go flatfoot and carry pillion.

And, there's b*gger all room under there to work if you need to do anything after the change as well. :)

sox

[GearJammer]

Thanx very much for that info, sox, it's much appreciated ;)

Originally, I'd looked into the Hagons after seeing how SWEET they look on your 450, but wanting to keep mine low-budget, the Hagons were too pricey for me........BUT......they're a definite up-grade, they look great & as you speak from experience, they'll manage a passenger without bottoming out.

I can see MadRat's dilema in having already scored the Reb 250 shocks & I can't spend MadRat's money for him, LMAO!...........Possible options: Sell the newly acquired Reb 250 shocks, hope to recover the same price expended for 'em, then spring for the more expensive, yet worthy, Hagons......? Or stand pat with the Reb 250 shocks for lowering the 450, then buy a second runner for 2-up riding...hehehe....I say this 1/2 teasingly, as 2-up wasn't a necessity for me on the 450 with the chopped Trumpet in the stable at the time for 2-up & now a 3rd bike in the stable that can be used for 2-up runs.

What the hay ? It's only money & one can't own too many bikes, ROTFLMAO!

[MadRat]

WELL WHAT'S SO DANG FUNNY??? hehe, jk, I can see the humor in that.
You're right GJ, ya' can't have too many bikes. I have a 650 I can ride 2-up on, but a passenger is not always a planned event.
I can't see spending more money for a stiffer ride. I'm too old and ride too many miles for that. I can make it rigid at no cost, I work in a sheemetal/machine shop(sheetmetal fabrication for 20 yrs.) So, what I'm thinkin', if I like the lowered modification, is to alter the fender and back seat to where the tire can have more up travel. I just don't know yet, I haven't got the shocks on.
Thanks, Yall, for all the advice, I'll keep ya' posted.

[GearJammer]

Thanx for realizing that I was truly joking around, too, Brother ;)

Years ago, my plan was to always have 2 runners while working on a 3rd project & then once complete, selling off one of the three & starting another project. Have ended up with 3 runners & even tho' the 450 is officially for sale, I'm not advertising it or pushing it as it's still a blast to ride & keeps miles off the other two....

sox brought up another good point about the wiring harness under the rear fender which is close when I did the measuring but still out of harm's way.

It's always a personal call that I respect every time. For me, it was wanting to have fun with the mods on a low-budget for the Reb. My son & I both own 1200 Sporties & he lowered his with 10 1/2" aftermarket shocks, mine's got 11 3/4" shocks on there right now, but am seriously considering buying some aftermarket struts made of billet (a dirty word for some, LOL!) that "look" like shocks, but are solid struts. They're 10 1/2" and would make the rear end rigid, which appeals to me for more usable torque, but again, that's just me.

It'll be interesting to see what you ultimately decide on doing & please keep us posted, O.K. ?

[MadRat]

GearJammer Thanx for realizing that I was truly joking around, too, Brother



I've read too many of your post to take it any other way....... lol

[Dixie]

Do keep us posted. With pics if u can. I may want to do this to my 86. Just one question..... I may be totally off here, but, can something be mounted for the fender to bottom out on instead of the tire? Maybe have a smooth ride untill you put a load on it? I saw my Dad do this once to an old farm utility trailer. But, he never got over 10 mph..... Its ok to laugh.LOL

[GearJammer]

No chuckling comin' from here, Dixie, I like the way that you think. Trying to figure out various mods is oftentimes how new innovations come to being.

Admittedly tho', this one gets a bit complicated........On a rigid-framed bike (no shocks whatsoever) there are "fender braces" for mounting the rear fender. The legs of these braces attach to the frame rails on either side & the rear fender is mounted on the top curvature of the brace. With no suspension to deal with, one can pretty much mount the rear fender quite close to the tire without any worries.

Picturing a fender brace......if being used with a fully suspended bike (shocks in place) and no hardware mating fender/brace, it would act like a stop-gap to prevent the fender from bottoming out on the rear tire. But it would also negate the ability of the shocks to function at that point.......on a tractor with 2 wheels to stabilize the machine & at the low speed you mentioned, I can see where this would be viable. On a motorcycle, with only one wheel on the back, the sudden cessation of suspension might become a very dicey & potentially dangerous proposition.

But, again, I commend your brainstorming of the idea ;)

Ride Safe........

[Dixie]

Oh, OK, I can understand that. Like bouncing on a trampoline thats too close to the ground. Come down one time too hard and.... OUCH !!!!! LOL

[GearJammer]

Bingo! You got it.......;)

.......*boing*....*boing*.....*boing*.....*SPLATT* .........LMAO!!!!!!!!

[MadRat]

Got the shocks monday, they sure are clean. Put'em on today and I really like the way it looks. From the side it seems to have given it a little bit of a raked look. If I move the horn from between the forks and frame, that will give it a little more air space there too.
It looks much better from the back too. I'd already put a cateye brake light under the fender and moved the tag to the side, standing up on end. The turn signals are on short stems. The brake light and turns are black, untill they are turned on, then red. I'll try to post some pics.
Took it for a short cruise, got too dang cold to tell much about it, but I think it's gonna be fine.
Unless I can modify the fender and fab out a hollow back seat, the ridin' 2-up IS out of the question, but that's ok too.
Thanks Yall, for the advice and comments.

[GearJammer]

Excellent! From your description of the other mods, really looking forward to seeing some pics when you get a chance......Absolutely agree with ya on it looking better with the more sloping profile & except for losing the 2-up option, I honestly believe you're gonna dig the way it handles with the 250 shocks ;)

Lower center of gravity, less suspension travel, but still suspension available....my thought is that it handles BETTER than stock & once in 6th gear, she'll really settle down for some serious boogiein'.....

[sox]

"my thought is that it handles BETTER than stock "

From my experience, I think it does :)
Definitely felt the handling was better when I changed over to the 250 size (before I put the Hagon's on)

sox

[Dixie]

once in 6th gear, she'll really settle down for some serious boogiein'.....

LOL... I can't help it... That's funny.

[GearJammer]

hehehe.......it's O-tay.....LMAO!

The double entendre' (sp ?) wasn't intended, but if it works for you, it's all good ;)

[MadRat]

Here they are, I know I need to loose the tool bag, but it's just too dang handy.
http://www.hondarebelforum.com/imagehosting/417477967416f337.bmp ('http://www.hondarebelforum.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=134')
http://www.hondarebelforum.com/imagehosting/4174779674174d0a.bmp ('http://www.hondarebelforum.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=135')
The next pic is just to show the round mirrors, black turns, and the missing "HONDA" plate under the headlight.
url='h[ttp://www.hondarebelforum.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=133']http://www.hondarebelforum.com/imagehosting/4174779674169963.bmp[/url]
I posted some more pics in "Images" in my profile.

[GearJammer]

No worries on the toolbag....every bike should be sporting at least one ;)

Your Reb is lookin' pretty trick! Are the blacked out lenses aftermarket or did you do those yourself ? And the "Honda" plate....was that a grind 'n polish or a newly fabbed plate ? To each their own every time, but I also like to lose as much "factory advertising" as possible. We were gassing up one day, I had the Reb & some cat who was already three sheets to the wind pointed & yelled "What the **** IS that" ? LMAO! At first glance, the Rebs look like H-D's, but then the parallel twin throws 'em off....hehehe......

She's lookin' GOOD, Brother!

[MadRat]

Thanks GearJammer, that's why I like "THIS" forum, it's helpful and always encouraging. I used "VHT Nite-Shades" lens paint.(find on e-bay) With the lights on, the original color shows.(Red-Rear,Yellow-Front) But, it dims them somewhat. So, I used brighter bulbs. The brake light is LEDs and the turns are 1157s with both elements shining together. The paint takes a little practice to avoid getting too dark, it gets darker as it dries.
The "No Honda" is a strip of that mirrored stainless. The pics don't show it but I made a fuse box cover with it too. Also, what the pics don't show is the pegs moved 8 in. forward and "No Honda" on either side of the motor. I used liquid steel to fill it in and then sanded it smooth. That worked good on one side, but for some reason, not the other. So, I took a strip of thin aluminum and cemented it to that side and blended edges with sander. Looks ok but I can do better.
The next "No Honda" is gonna be the back of the passenger seat. I think with a vinyl repair kit and a little practice, I can make it look like it was never there.
So, I know exactly what you mean by the "What th' #### is that"?? It's funny, aint it? I don't rattle windows but I've turned some heads. hahaha

[GearJammer]

And thank YOU, Brother ;).......Your ingenuity & the info provided can help others with their own mods. You've explained everything in very good detail & that's also helpful & much appreciated.

Had a chance to check out the other pics in your Profile & am definitely impressed with what you've been doing. Lots of very cool personalizations & trick lookin' mods.

You've also given me some ideas for when the weather turns warmer.....it will turn warmer, yes ? LMAO! I'd been thinking of using JB Weld to fill in the "No Honda" logos on the side covers & after seeing that you've done it successfully, am definitely gonna give that a shot, possibly with a little twist.....say, for example, one used JB Weld to fill in & cover those Honda logos, but made it slightly raised & covered either a circular or rectangular area, then while the JB Weld was still setting up, one could inlay pieces of metal into the JB Weld to form designs or lettering ? (Since it looks like I'll be keeping the Reb, am gonna go BTTW with stripping it down again & going to more of a bobber styling, will also lose the EMGO's & stock airbox & spring for the re-jet kits)

And, by all means, MadRat.......keep 'em guessin'. It's a side benefit that comes with the gratification of doin' your own thing! LMAO!

[MadRat]

You keepin' th' Reb is good news, GearJammer. Please note that with the liquid steel, it worked good on one side but not the other. The good side, the colors blended in perfect. The other side is smooth but the Honda shows up darker. I'm not sure what I did different, unless maybe I sanded the good side before it was completly dry and got some aluminum dust in it.
I've never saw "liquid aluminum", I wonder if they make it?

EDIT: I like your idea of a metal inlay, that would be cool. Also, am wondering if the liquid steel would mix with ground aluminum dust or even aluminum paint.
Like you said, "When the weather warms up", I'll do some experimenting.

[GearJammer]

Thanx, MadRat......I'd probably still sell it if someone was interested, but this Reb has been dependable, low maintainence (relatively) & a blast to ride, so I'll set it back up to my own aesthetic preference & chip away at additional mods.

Am wondering if the amounts of liquid steel & hardener used on the bad side was different than what you mixed for the good side ? I dunno....

I could be wrong, but it seems that I've seen liquid aluminum. Will have to check next time I'm in an auto supply store. Considering that liquid steel does adhere to aluminum (you've done it on the covers, many have repaired aluminum heads on old Triumphs with JB Weld), your idea of adding aluminum dust while mixing up the liquid steel sure would seem possible.

The inlays should be easy enough......and the possibilities might be pretty wide open. Sheet metal designs could be drawn, cut & inlayed into the uncured JB Weld....metal strips to form lettering......one's favorite beer bottle cap ;)......LMAO! I've removed the bar-ends from the handgrips & inserted beer bottle caps in their place....hehehe.....

[MadRat]

Here's a pic of the side cover with the "HONDA" filled in, but the "Made in Japan" still shows..... At least I know it CAN be done.
It also shows a bracket moving the pegs foward, it's made of .180 cold roll steel with a thin piece of stainless to the outside.

http://http://www.hondarebelforum.com/imagehosting/4174781665cef0b9.bmp ('http://www.hondarebelforum.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=142')


This side is just covered with a strip of aluminum. It didn't look too bad untill the cement turned loose.

http://http://www.hondarebelforum.com/imagehosting/4174781665d0cf7b.bmp ('http://www.hondarebelforum.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=143')



This is the stainless cover over the box behind headlight. It covers a Honda logo.


http://http://www.hondarebelforum.com/imagehosting/4174781665d13cd4.bmp ('http://www.hondarebelforum.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=144')


And to get this thread back on the subject it started out on, here's a side view of the 250 shocks. hehe lmao



http://http://www.hondarebelforum.com/imagehosting/4174781734377d1b.bmp ('http://www.hondarebelforum.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=145')

[GearJammer]

Thanx for the great pics, MadRat.....

The work you've done with stainless add some very nice accents while also eliminating the factory logos ;)

Now, that strip of aluminum looks real tempting! Covers the logo, could be etched, engraved or left plain.......seems like a bead of liquid steel would hold it permanently in place, no ?

No offense towards Honda as the 450 Reb is a GREAT bike, but the stance with the 250 shocks looks much more aesthetically sound IMHO.....Excellent job!

[MadRat]

Yep, I bet you're right, GearJammer. Liquid steel should hold it on better. Probably what I'm gonna try, and then sand the edges down and try to blend it in. And, like you, if I could come up with some cool logo or design, give it the personal touch. hehe
If the side cover was perfectly flat it would be much easier, but it's not and whatever goes on there has to be formed to fit the "bulge". That's why I didn't use something round.
I thought one time about NOT trying to blend it in and hide it, but rather put screw heads on it to make it LOOK like a removable cover. Decided not to go that route, I REALLY want it to look like a SOLID PLAIN cover.
Another problem is finding a way to hold it on there good and tight untill it completely cures.

Also, I agree with you about Honda making the 450 such a great bike, but with the 250 shocks, yeah, that was the look I was hoping for. And I haven't give up on riding 2-up, I'm still thinking the fender and seat can be modified for that. It just seems to me that the top of the fender could be cut out and the seat replaced with a hollow seat allowing a little more travel. I don't know, it just depends on where the tire scrubs. But if it scrubs directly under the rear seat, I can't see why it wouldn't work. I don't want to ruin a good fender, maybe I can find another one already in bad shape.
And thanks alot, I appreciate the comments and all the helpful advice.

[GearJammer]

Had thought about the option of screwing a plate over the logo, but I respect that you want to keep it looking like a solid piece. Am also not sure how thick that cover is & wouldn't wanna go all the way thru it & create possible leakage problems, so I'm with ya on figuring out a way to do it from the outside without compromising the cover itself. I'm leaning towards your idea of cutting a plate to place over the logo & then using JB Weld to hold it on there. Maybe even black-out the front of the plate, handpaint something on there or slap a decal on there, whatever, then adding some clear coat.

Am following what you've said about holding the plate on there while the liquid steel sets up. Am thinking that in warmer weather, which would speed up the curing process, it'd still be a 3-handed job........but, if the bike were positioned close to a wall, one might be able to apply a bead of liquid steel to the backside of the plate, hold it where it wants to be placed on the cover & then maybe someone else could carefully place a 2x4 or some other type of brace between the plate & the wall to hold it in place ? (It'd obviously be easier with the cover off the bike so's it could be set flat on a bench, but I'm not interested in going thru all that hassle, LOL!)

Cutting the rear fender for 2-up riding presents more of a challenge, but I agree that it could probably be done. Two complications that come to mind:

1) Wanting to keep any cut/alteration sealed from the topside to prevent dirt, water, etc. from being thrown up thru it while riding......
2) Not knowing how strong the 250 shocks would be with the added weight of the bike itself (approx. 70 lbs. more from the bike, plus the combined weight of the 2 riders) Might not be an issue, I dunno.......maybe someone who sells the 250 shocks could provide the max weight allowed for safe usage as far as coil strength & the safe limits of travel ?

[MadRat]

Not knowing how strong the 250 shocks would be with the added weight of the bike itself (approx. 70 lbs. more from the bike, plus the combined weight of the 2 riders) Might not be an issue, I dunno.......maybe someone who sells the 250 shocks could provide the max weight allowed for safe usage as far as coil strength & the safe limits of travel ?


Yep, I understand, that's right. I haven't been able to find that info. So, if there are any 250 Rebel riders that have been keeping up with this thread, I'd appreciate any input. Whats the most weight you've put on your 250? Passenger or maybe luggage. Thanks
(I don't regret doin' it... I'm not takin' 'em off... hehe)

[GearJammer]

"(I don't regret doin' it... I'm not takin' 'em off... hehe)"

THAT'S the spirit! LMAO!