Rebuilding bar and ign switches on the 250 Rebel. (Complete)

[screamineagle]

I've seen in a few posts about people having trouble with their lights going on and off, horn not working all the time, sticky blinkers, and stop/run buttons not working.
I have just purchased a 1985 250 Rebel with some of the same problems.

Since the bike was out in the weather most of the time, the first place I looked was towards the switches.
Especially since I had most, if not all , of the problems at once.
My only 3 options were to either get new switch heads ($175.00 for both), get some used ones from e-bay ( did that for about $70.00 for both), or open them up and find out what made them tick.

In this post, and in posts to fallow, I will be covering how I rebuilt those switches. To do it takes about 1 or 2 hrs per side, but to explain it will take much longer. I will also be trying to get some pics of the process and up-load them when I can.

First let me point out that if you are going to try to do this make sure you have the patients for this or DO NOT attempt it.
There are very small springs and balls inside these switches which, if you try to hurry, will wind up flying into the Twilight Zone.

The things that you will need to complete this task are:

1. A can of electrical contact cleaner.
2. A can of brake cleaner or some carb cleaner.
3. A small amount of electrical contact grease. (I found some in a little “pill packet” on the counter of the auto parts store for $.99. That’s more then enough to do all the switches ).
4. Some synthetic brake caliper grease.
5. A tooth pick. ( to put the contact grease on with).
6. A micro flat head screwdriver. ( to handle some of the small springs and put the brake grease on with).
7. Some shop rags.
8. Some small containers to put the brake cleaner and contact cleaner in.
9. A small brush such as a baby tooth brush.
10. A phillips screwdriver.

Step 1 would be to remove the switch heads from the bike as per Clymer's manual. Do this one at a time so you know what wires to hook them back up to. And it might help to number, with a small piece of masking tape, the loose wire ends so you can just match the numbers when reinstalling them.

You can rebuild them while the are still on the bike, but it is a whole lot easier to do it on a bench. Trust me, I've done it both ways. Just make sure the surface you are working on is smooth. No "butcher block" tables because the small parts could roll into the cracks.

I'll start with the left side switch head first.

Carefully open up the switch head. There are wires leading from the harness to BOTH halves of the housing so you will not be able to completely separate them. There are screws holding the switches into both halves so nothing flying at you just yet.
In the top part of the housing you should see 3 screws. 2 holding down the Hi/Low beam switch, and 1 holding a metal tab to hold the wires.
Remove the 2 screws holding the light switch and put the screws where they won't get lost. All the mounting screws are the same so you can bunch them together, if you'd like, in a cup or bag. Now remove the remaining screw and plate and ease the switch out of the housing.

Flip the switch over and look at the contacts. They are copper coated so you might just see green dots. It’s the green stuff that is causing the problem and has to be cleaned off. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel043-1.jpg

The switch it’s self is in three main pieces. The rocker, which is the button that you hit, the cover, and the contact half. The switch is “snap fit” together via a “tab and slot” system and is not glued.
Grab a shop rag and put it under the switch in your hand. This will make it much easier to catch the small ball and the two springs that are in the switch.
Find one of the tab and slot fittings and GENTLY pull it apart. You may want to wrap the switch in the rag before you do this.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel044-1.jpg

If parts didn’t come flying out then keep the rag wrapped around it and pull at the other tab and slot joint.
By now everything should have come apart and you should be holding a mess in your hands consisting of the 3 main switch pieces, a small steel ball, a small steel spring, a shorter small spring, and a contact plate. If any of this is missing look in the rag or on your bench.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel045-1.jpg

You also should notice some gunk built up on everything. This is the grease they used at the factory which looks to me like wheel bearing grease. By now the stuff has become thick, sticky, full of grime and needs to be cleaned off.
Place bit of brake cleaner in one of the small containers and put the springs and ball in there.
Put some contact cleaner in another small container and put the contact plate in it.
Dip the small brush in the contact cleaner and start scrubbing the contact half of the main switch body which should still be attached to the wire harness. Get all the green stuff off and as well as all the old grease. DO NOT use the brake cleaner for this as I don’t think it is good for plastic parts.
Now work on the other two pieces of the main switch body and get all the grime and dirt off of them.

Ahhhh, now you have a lot of tiny, but clean parts. Now it time to figure out how they go back together.

First, put a small amount of contact grease on the tooth pick and smear it on the contacts that are still attached to the wire harness. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel046-1.jpg

Take some brake grease and put it in the top hole of the rocker switch ( the one that goes all the way through ) and smear a bit on side of the switch where it comes in contact with the other two halves. Do this on both sides.

Pick up the cover half of the main switch body and look at the inside of it. You should see a small open pocket on the inside. The bottom part of this pocket should have a hump in it. This is where the little ball rides and holds the switch in either position. Place a dab of brake grease in this pocket and set the half to the side.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel047-1.jpg

Now grab the rocker part of the switch again and look at the lower sides. On one side you should see a hole in the middle of a recessed portion of it. Take a small dab of contact grease and place it in the hole. This hole is where the smaller of the two springs goes, and the indent is where the contact plate goes. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel048-1.jpgFlip the switch over and you should see another open pocket. This time it is up side down. This is where the larger of the two springs and the ball goes. Put a dab of brake grease in there and lay the rocker back down.

Retrieve the springs, ball, and contact plate out of their cleaners, put them on a rag , roll or dab them dry, and keep them on the rag within easy reach.

Take a look at the contact plate. You should notice that the tabs on either side are different in size. They will only fit on the side of the rocker switch one way. Test fit this part and get familiar with the way it fits.

Grab the rocker part again, hold it in your hands, and place the smaller of the springs into the hole in the middle of the indent. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel049-1.jpg
Put the contact plate over the spring with the tabs in their correct positions.
Press the contact plate down to compress the spring and hold it in by the tabs.
Smear a bit of contact grease on the contact plat face.

Now, still keeping the spring compressed, grab the contact side of the main body and place the rocker on it. The hole on the top of the rocker ( the one that goes all the way through ) should be placed on the plastic nub at the top of the contact half. Now switch to keeping pressure on this assembly. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel050-1.jpg

Grab the larger spring and place it in the other side of the rocker switch in the little open pocket.
Put the ball at the open end of the pocket against the spring. You should have put enough grease in there to keep the ball in place if you keep the assembly fairly level. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel051-1.jpg
I would suggest doing all of this over top of a shop rag just in case something falls.

Now for the real tricky part. Pick up the cover side of the main body and position it just below the other two sides, which you are holding together, as if you were trying to sneak in up on the rest of the assembly. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel052-1.jpg

Make sure the ball goes into the pocket on the cover side and snap the cover onto the contact side also making sure that the nub on the cover side goes into hole at the top of the rocker just like the other side.

Congratulations !!!! You’ve just rebuilt the Hi/Low beam switch.

Now put the switch back into the housing and screw it into place first. Then just screw the hold down plate in place over the wire harness and your done with the top half.

Remember this procedure. It is the same procedure for rebuilding the Run/Kill switch on the other side, and I will not be covering this procedure for that side.

If you have any trouble with this procedure, or with understanding any of this procedure, feel free to contact me. I will be glad to explain it, as much as I can.






Part 2: The lower half of the left side switches. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel011-1.jpg

The first thing you will notice here is the cover / positioning plate. It has a recess in the middle that goes around your handlebar.
Now look in the recess at the end closest to the choke lever. You should notice a small tab sticking up into the recess. That is the positioning tab.
On the bottom side of your bars (if they are stock) is a hole that this tab fits into. When it comes time to put these switches back on your bike you have to line up the tabs with the holes or the switch housings won’t go on right.
The reason I am telling you this is because I had ordered the left side switch group from someone on e-bay. When it came in the tab was bent telling me that someone didn’t know about the positioning hole on the bars.

Now lets rip the bottom half down and get it cleaned.

The cover plate only has one screw in it. The other side is held in place via a pin in the main cover.
Take the screw out and lift the cover off . Try to do this with the bottom of the main body sitting flat on your bench on a rag.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel012-1.jpg

Right under the cover you will see the turn signal mechanism. This should be covered with more of that yellow gunk. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel013-1.jpg
The signal mechanism is in 2 pieces. The top half is the part that sticks through the cover and has the button on it. The lower half is more like a plate that has a screw with a washer and spacer below it. DO NOT remove this screw.
You should see a screw on either side of the lower signal plate. These screws you can remove to remove the upper and lower signal mechanism. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel014-1.jpg

At the opposite side of the signal switch at the end of the upper mechanism is a ball and spring. Don’t worry about these for they won’t come flying out at you. This ball rides on the back of the upper signal mechanism and is what keeps tension on the mechanism to put it back into a center position after you turn a blinker on, and is what pushes it back out when you push it in to cancel the signal.

Once you get the signal mechanism out slide it apart and place it in the brake cleaner. Try not to immerse the plastic thumb switch. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel041-1.jpg

Look inside the housing and you should see two more screws. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel016-1.jpg One holds the turn signal switch down via a tab. And the other holds the horn button assembly in place.
Remove the one holding the signal switch in and GENTLY pull the switch out of it’s hole. I said gently because the ball and spring I mentioned earlier is now free to fall out the back of it’s housing. With all the gunk that is in there it should stay in place though. You can push it through with your micro screwdriver now if you want. I waited until I had the assembly apart as you can see. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel028-1.jpg http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel029-1.jpg http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel030-1.jpg


Now take the last screw out of the horn switch and wiggle the entire switch, button and all out of the housing.


The turn signal switch is held together by tab and slot fittings on either side of the switch body. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums
Gently pull one side of the switch body and disengage the tab form the slot on one side. [img]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel022-1.jpg
Then just slide the other tab out of it’s slot. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel023-1.jpg
Pull the switch slide box out of the main body and remove the contact plate and small spring behind it http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel024-1.jpg And place the spring and contact in the contact cleaner.

Flip the slide box over and you will notice that it has a ball in the back. The ball will not come out so don’t try to. You will just have to do your best to grease it with some brake grease.

On the inside of the main body you will see three indents. That is where the ball in the back of the slide box rides and holds the switch in the position you want it in. Place a dab of brake grease in all three indents and also smear some in the bottom and along the back inside of the main body. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel026-1.jpg

Now grab the contact half of the switch. Put some contact cleaner on your brush and scrub the contacts clean of all the green stuff and gunk.
Dab it dry with a clean rag and, with the tooth pick, smear some contact grease on all of the contacts.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel035-1.jpg
Grab the spring and contact plate out of the cleaner and dab them dry.
Get the switch slide box and place it so the ball is laying on the rag.
There are two sets of slots and two center holes in the face of the box. We are interested in the upper set of holes.
Place a dab of contact grease in the top center hole and place the spring in it. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel033-1.jpg
Now place the contact over the spring so the tabs go into the slots. Now smear a little contact grease on the face of the contact plate. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel034-1.jpg Place the assembly into the main body with the contact plate facing outward. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel023-1.jpg The smooth part of the box goes on the bottom.

Take the wire side of the contact side and slip it into the slot. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel022-1.jpg Then just snap the other tab into the other slot.

Now put a dab of brake grease in the hole at the top of the assemble from the back.
Place the ball in first. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel031-1.jpg Then put another dab of brake grease in the hole and slide the spring into place. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel032-1.jpg



Congratulations!!!! You’ve just rebuilt the turn signal switch.









Part 3: The horn button.

This is probably the easiest switch to do. It has a contact half which is flat, and a the button half which has the hook on it. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel036-1.jpg

Do to the hinge you can not completely separate the two halves. But you can get them far enough apart to clean the contact.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel037-1.jpg Gently twist the button upwards and slightly pull outwards. The hook should clear the top of the contact plate and the spring should open the switch reveling the contact. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel038-1.jpg
Now take your brush dipped in contact cleaner and brush the contact clean.
Wipe it dry with the clean rag and place a small dab of contact grease on the contact.
Take your mini screwdriver and put a bit of brake grease on the hinge spring and close the assembly in the same manner as you opened it.
Now you’ve just rebuilt the horn button.





Getting the switches back inside is almost the same as getting them out.
Just notice that there is a small slot in the main housing where the front of the horn button contact plate sits. If you do not get the plate in that slot, the horn button won’t fit right and will not go through the hole all the way.
You’ll have to do some wiggling to get the horn button into place but it shouldn’t be that hard.

Put the wiring harness in so that the zip tie is just inside the main housing.

Place the turn signal switch into it’s recess and screw it down with the screw and hold-down plate. The plate goes over top of the little box where the ball and spring are.

Now get some brake grease on your micro screwdriver and grease the top of the turn signal slide box.

Remember the turn signal mechanism? Now it’s time to get both pieces out of the brake cleaner and wipe them dry.
Take some brake grease and put it in the grove just under the washer of the lower mechanism.
On the upper half grease the end opposite to the button. This is where the ball rides. Also grease the two pins on the bottom.
Now just slide the two pieces together. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/MyRebel039-1.jpg
Place the signal mechanism in the housing the same way you took it out and screw in the two screws.
Now place the positioning plate into position and put the remaining screw in.


Guess what? You’ve just completed rebuilding the switches to the left side of your bike!!!!!!! http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/turnsignal-1.jpg

Now go get a Coke, a beer, a smoke, or whatever calms you down and get ready to tackle the other side.

[screamineagle]

Ok, now for the much awaited rebuild on the start switch. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1158-1.jpg

First, as with the left side switches, remove the housing and wires from the bike per Clymer’s manual.
Take the switch housing into your bench and separate the two halves. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1159-1.jpg
There are only 2 switches in this assembly. The run/kill switch, which is located in the upper half, and the starter switch, which is in the lower half.http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1160-1.jpg

The Hi/Low switch is almost exactly the same as the Run/Kill switch so I will not be covering how to rebuild that switch. If you need to know how to rebuild that switch, refer to the section on the Hi/Low switch. But this switch does need to be removed from the housing to make it easer to get at the start switch. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1162-1.jpg

Once the Run/Kill switch is removed from the upper housing you can get at the lower housing.
The first thing you will see is a metal plate which holds the assembly to you bars. It only has one screw and is held in place on the other side by a small pin molded into the housing. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1163-1.jpg
Remove the screw and the plate keeping the screw in the plate so you know where it goes when it’s time to put it back in. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1165-1.jpg

Next you will see another smaller plate holding the wiring harness. It too has only one screw. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1166-1.jpg
Remove this screw and plate keeping the screw in the plate for the same reason as above.

Now you should be able to get at the starter switch. It has two screws one either side. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1167-1.jpg
Remove these screws and place them somewhere where you won’t knock them off you bench.
Pull the rear of the switch up and slide the switch through the hole in the housing.
Now all the switches are out of the main housing.

The start switch is held together by 4 locking tabs. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1170-1.jpg http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1169-1.jpg
Using you flathead mini screwdriver GENTILY pry between the top plate and the side of the housing on the switch while using you finger to press on the tab where the screw holds the switch into the main housing. That should pop one side of the top plate out of the bottom housing.
Now simply pull the free side up and the other side should free it’s self and the switch housing should be free of the wiring harness. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1169-1.jpg
Place the harness aside and start to work on the switch housing. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1172-1.jpg

Inside the housing is a slide box with two contact plates, a spacer, and a small spring under the spacer. There is also a larger spring in the rear of the box which pushes the box back into place once you start your bike.
To remove this box you need to slightly press the start button in, and lift the front out of the housing. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1173-1.jpg
Now remove the slide box and set the housing in some contact cleaner.
Grab your mini screwdriver and lift the two small contact plates, the spacer, and the 2 springs and place them in the contact cleaner. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1177-1.jpg http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1175-1.jpg
Flip the slide box over and you will see a ball check on the bottom. This is non removable so please do not try to remove it. It may be rusty and it will need to be cleaned as best as possible so throw the box into the cleaner.

While everything is soaking, grab the top part of the switch where the contacts and the wiring harness is.
If these are old switches, the contacts should be brown with oxidation, or even green. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1178-1.jpg
Dip your brush in contact cleaner and scrub these contacts as best as possible. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1180-1.jpg If they are not coming clean then you can take an Emory board or piece of find grit sand paper and gently rub them until you can see a nice shinny copper color. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1181-1.jpg http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1183-1.jpg
If you do use the Emory board, make sure you follow it with a brushing with the cleaner to get any grit off of them. Now put the contacts aside.

Get the switch lower housing out of the cleaner and take the brush to it. Try to get all the rust deposits out from the bottom. You may want to spray it with the contact cleaner to get the stuff hiding in the corners. Wipe the housing dry and inspect it. You should see a dimple in the bottom where that ball check rides. Grab your brake grease http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1184-1.jpg and put a dab into the dimple. Now put some brake grease on you micro screwdriver and coat the bottom, and halfway up the sides of the inside of the housing. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1187-1.jpg Put the housing to the side and get the slide box out of the cleaner.

Take your brush and scrub the box clean. Make sure you get into the holes at the back and in the middle of the top where the springs set, then wipe the box dry.
Grab your brake grease and put a dab into the hole at the back of the slide box.
Roll the box over and get some brake grease on your micro screwdriver.
Smear the grease onto the ball at the bottom of the box. Use gentle pressure to get some of the grease into the sides of the ball. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1185-1.jpg
Flip the box back over and take some contact grease and smear it into the hole on top of the box, making sure you get it into the groves at the sides. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1191-1.jpg
Now fish the contact plates, small spring, and spacer out of the cleaner.
Wipe the contact plates off and inspect them. If they are still dirty you can use the Emory board to shine the top of the bumps. Clean them with contact cleaner and the brush afterwards and wipe them dry.
Set the spring into the hole at the top for the box and give it a little twist to set it into the contact grease.
Coat the bottom and bottom of the spacer with contact grease and place it on top of the spring, making sure that the “ears“ are facing the front and back of the box.
The contact plates go on the sides of the spacer and run parallel with the sides of the box so that the tabs on their sides go into the groves in the top of the slide box. Put some contact grease on the plates to keep them in place when you put them in. The spacer and plates will be just sitting there so be careful with this assembly while moving it around. The grease should keep everything in place until you can get the top part of the housing on. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1193-1.jpg
Take the larger spring out of the cleaner, wipe it dry, and put it inside of the hole at the rear of the contact box. Give it a little twist to help set it and to get the brake grease to help hold it into place. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1189-1.jpg

Grab the lower housing and place the slide box into it. Angle it so that the spring at the rear goes in first. Compress the spring slightly and drop the front of the box into place. Press the start button in and let it out a few times to get the grease spread in the bottom. Make sure no brake grease will come in contact with the slide plates. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1173-1.jpg

Now get the top contact housing and smear some contact grease on the contacts.
Place it over top of the lower housing so that the wires are bent toward the rear of the unit.
Place the tabs from one side into their slots and lower the other side down and snap into place.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1195-1.jpg
Not that the wires are bent toward the rear of the switch.


CONGRADULATIONS !!! You’ve just rebuilt your start switch!!!

Now all you have to do is get the switches back into the main housing in the reverse of how you got them out.
It may be a good idea to coat the ends of the connectors with a little contact grease to make it a little easier to put them back together, and to protect them from future trouble from moisture.

IMPORTANT NOTICE:

This is an important switch. So when you put this switch back on your bike PLEASE MAKE SURE YOUR BIKE IS IN NUTRIAL before you plug the switch back into your bike. I’m not sure what will happen if you had crossed the contact plates and put them in wrong. It might be very possible that when you put power to this switch that the bike will try to start on it’s own. If it is in gear it will take you for a ride you won’t want to be on.
So I’m going to say this again.

PLEASE MAKE SURE YOUR BIKE IS IN NEUTRIAL!!!


Ok, that being said, go grab a coke, a smoke, and your gear, and take the bike out for a test drive.

Have fun!

[screamineagle]

Ok, found another electrical problem with my Rebel. Seems that the rear taillight didn’t want to work all the time.
I traced the problem down to the ignition switch.

SO, here is the brake down of how to clean you ignition switch contacts.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1128-1.jpg

By now you should be familiar with the supplies needed to clean these contacts. Although you won’t be needing the brake cleaner this time because all of these contacts are in plastic.

The first thing to do is to remove the switch from the bike per Clymer’s manual .
There are only 4 connectors to be pulled apart. You can tag them if you wish, but the wires speak for themselves.
The only wires you would have to worry about are the red and black wires because they have the same connectors on their ends. Just remember to match the wire colors when putting the switch back on the bike.

The next thing to do is to remove the rear panel of the switch. You will notice 4 tabs that hold the panel in place. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1129.jpg http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1130.jpg
GENTILY pry these tabs away from the switch main body. You may want to use your micro screwdriver as a wedge while prying the rest of the tabs off to keep them from snapping back into place.

Once the cover is removed you should be able to see the rear of the contact assembly. I had a little trouble seeing it as you can see. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1131.jpg
Seems I had a little webbed visitor make a home in mine.

Once all the junk is cleaned out form this area it’s time to get the contact assembly out.
To get the wiring harness out you need to pry the metal bracket apart. You should see the line where the two sides meet after wrapping around the wires. Pry it apart there and move the harness away from the bracket.
Now for the tricky part. There are 3 tabs that hold the contact assembly into the main body. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1136.jpg http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1134.jpg http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1133.jpg
They are fairly deep and are a pain to get loose. I’m not sure if there is a better way of freeing this part ( if anyone knows PLEASE tell ) But as you can see in this pic I wound up breaking the main housing while trying. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1139.jpg
Thank goodness it was only a small break, and that it was on the bottom of the housing where the drain is.
In any case, once you get the tabs to come loose you should be holding the contact assembly, along with the wires, in you hand. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1138.jpg
If they are dull and brown, like these were, then they needed a good cleaning.
Put some of your contact cleaner into one of you small cups and let the contacts soak.

Meanwhile remove the contact plate assembly. This should just pull straight out from the main body. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1137.jpg
Don’t worry about the plates or the balls. They are set in place and will not come apart on you. I should mention that the balls in this assembly are NOT removable. The plates are held in by locking tabs on either side of each plate and you may be able to remove them. But since the contact plates are so exposed, and held in place, I wouldn’t recommend removing them. Why risk braking anymore plastic parts? http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1140.jpg http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1141.jpg
Anyway, after you remove the plates, dip your small brush into the contact cleaner and scrub the plates clean. You may want to LIGHTLY rub the plate dimples with an emery board or fine piece of sand paper. If you do, make sure you brush them clean again with the cleaner and wipe them dry. Now wipe all the old gummed up grease from around the bottom and set the assembly aside.

Grab the main housing and put some brake caliper grease all over the lower part of the inside up to the top of the ridges that are along the sides of the housing. Don’t go easy on the grease, but don’t put too much in either.
Make sure to push the grease into the groves at the bottom. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1142.jpg
Your micro (flat head) screwdriver will help in this area.

Now set the housing aside and grab the contact assembly again.
Dip the brush in the cleaner and brush all the gunk off of the contacts. Again, you may want to use the emery board or fine sandpaper in order to get them clean. They should be a shiny copper color when finished.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1144.jpg
Now take your contact grease and spread it all over contact side of this assembly and inside the hole in the middle. Do not be easy with the grease. You want to make sure the contacts won’t get any moisture on them. That’s what caused them to get into this condition in the first place.

Now it’s time to put everything back together.

First, put some contact grease on the contact plates ( again, don’t be easy with it) and drop the contact plate assembly into the main housing. Make sure the plates are in the same position as they were when you took them out. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/screamineagle_rc/DSCF1137.jpg
You don’t want to install them backwards.

If need be, I will e-mail any of these pics to anyone that needs a closer look at them. Just let me know.

Now take the contact assembly, place the center pin of the plate assembly through the hole in the middle, line up the 3 tabs, and snap it into place.
Put the wiring harness back into the metal bracket and bend the tabs back around it.
Snap the backing plate into place, put some contact grease on the ends of the wiring connectors, and your finished.

Now all that need to be done is installing the switch back into the bike.

IMPORTANT!!!

Make sure the bike is in neutral and on a flat surface. I don’t know which contacts will be crossed if you’ve installed the plate assembly backwards, so it would be safer just in case the bike tries to start when you plug the switch back in. If this happens, don’t panic. Just pull the last connection that you made back apart, remove the switch, and head back to your bench and take the switch apart again to reverse the contact plates. Even if you have a newer model with the side stand cutout switch you’ll want to make sure you have the bike in neutral. Reversing the ignition contacts may over ride this switch. Better to be safe then sorry.

Once your sure the switch is together correctly, and is plugged in, don’t mount the switch just yet. Make sure it works correctly while it is still dangling. Turn the key back and forth to make sure all your lights and everything works.
If they are all ok then mount the switch, button everything back up, and go test drive the bike ( that’s the best part of working on your bike…LOL).


P.S.
As always, if anyone needs help understanding anything I wrote, or would need bigger pictures, please feel free to contact me. I'll be happy to help.

[GearJammer]

"screamineagle" wrote: "Ok, found another electrical problem with my Rebel. Seems that the rear taillight didn’t want to work all the time.
I traced the problem down to the ignition switch."

"screamineagle", Meant to ask you this back then, but forgot...DOH! How did you determine that the problem had been in the ignition switch ? Run a continuity test that hit a "dead open" (I think that's the right term) at the point of the Ig. Sw. ?

Reason I ask is that eventually I'll be trying to chase down the intermittent headlight issue again. For the time being, I've removed the headlight fuse so that it isn't going on & off & drawing the unwanted attention :wink: When the weather warms up, will be checking this issue out again.

Last time I was checking this stuff out, noticed that with the headlight "On", if I tapped either the 1) left-hand control switch housing, the 2) right-hand control switch housing or the 3) ignition switch, I could make the headlight go on or off. This pretty much narrows it down to possibly one of those 3 places & I'd been thinking Ignition Switch also as I've already opened up & cleaned the left/right control housings. On the left/right control housings, the other options such as Hi/Lo Switch, Horn & Kill Switch all function (Kill Switch hadn't worked before the cleaning)

Was asking myself what these 3 components had in common that might be the root of the problem & came up with the thought that they all shared a tie-in to the Ignition Switch (with the Ignition Switch being in & of itself in need of a possible cleaning)

As a side note, had checked inside the headlight shell & also checked the connection of regulator/rectifier for the headlight wiring (both of these checked out O.K.), so was thinking that the last 2 areas to check were the Ignition Switch itself or the wiring from Igntion Switch to Junction Box.

Any insights would be much appreciated.

Thanx in advance... :wink:

[screamineagle]

Hey Jammer,

I just thought of a question. While taping the iggy switch, have you ever looked to see what the other lights were doing? Mainly the tail light. If it is flickering as well then your problem does lie in that iggy switch.

The way I tracked down my problem was to turn on the switch and just wiggle the key a little. Not enough to slide it off the contacts inside, but just enough to hit the dead spot.
The main reason I started with the switch was that the problem was intermitant. It's not like the light was out all the time. To tell the truth, I started looking for the problem at the bulb.

I troubleshoot the hardway. I use my knowledge and expearance. The only reason I would need a meeter to help me would be to find out how much power is going to something. Besides not too many people carry a meeter with them in their tool pouch. I've had to solve alot of problems on the side of the road. All I need to know is how something works in order to figger why it's not working.

Anyway, if I were you, since you've already reworked you bar switches, I'd start looking at the key switch. Do the same thing I did for my taillight and see what happends. After that try the conections in the "rats nest". Find the ones for the headlight and wiggle them to see is that makes any differance. Do this with power going to the light. Next, while your in there, find the conections for the iggy switch and do the same to those.
Oh, and what was the condition of you bar switches when you took them apart? Chances are your iggy switch looks the same.

Goodluck Jammer, and Merry Christmas to you and yours.

[GearJammer]

Thanx for the great response, "screamineagle"!

The taillight & brake light check out fine & stay on, even when the headlight goes out, so it's probably in that Ignition Switch.

Forgot to mention that I'd also opened up the Junction Box (rat's nest, spagetti wiring) & did jiggle the corresponding wires but it had no effect, so those are probably good to go. Even gave the whole Junction Box a few good blasts with electrical contact cleaner (for those considering this, PLEASE make sure that the spray doesn't hit your paint)

The condition inside the control housings was as to be expected...dusty, not excessive, but obviously enough to have kept the Kill Switch from working until using the electrical contact cleaner.

Now that you mention it, the key switch on mine is a bit dicey to begin with, only in that I can remove the key while the bike's running & not wanting to chance having the key vibrate or bounce out while riding on the highway, have clipped a snap-key ring around the handlebars that'll hold the key ring just in case. The reason I stopped before removal of the Ignition Switch was because after removing the Ig. Sw. cover plate, the bolts holding the Ignition Switch itself were tight, tight, tight & didn't feel like messing with it at the time. (It'll take a socket wrench & rubber mallet or a small pry bar to get 'em loose)

But in light of what you've just shared, the next time I approach this thing, will try jiggling the key in the switch & see if that makes the headlight cut out. And as you've also mentioned, there's probably just enough dust build-up inside there to be causing this intermittent problem.

Thanx again, "screamineagle" & here's wishing you & your's a Merry Christmas as well! :D

Will offer an update on this headlight prob....oh, maybe sometime this coming Spring ? LOL! Seriously, thanx again...

[screamineagle]

Well Jammer, it looks like your about halfway into the troubleshoot.

But altho your iggy switch may need a good cleaning, that is not going to do anything for your problem with keeping the key in there. That sounds like the tumblers are wearing down.
I'll tell you what you might want to do. Get the switch off the bike and take it to a locksmith. He will be able to put new tumblers in and still retain the original key. He may even be able to clean the contacts while he's in there. Altho he may not have to go into the back of the unit in order to get to the tumblers. If not, you might want to handle that part.
It's either that or get another iggy switch.

But for some reason, after reading your last post I'm begining to think that your problem is not in that iggy switch. Of course I have a mindset for the 250, not the 450. I wish I could get my hands on a 450 just to look it over. Then I might be able to help you a little better in this area. I may have to go to Bike Bandit to see if I can get anything from their schematic drawings of the parts. I may also have to see if I can find a wireing schematic for the 450.

I'll tell you what, go ahead and clean the contacts in that switch just because they probily need it. But if that doesn't work, try to "jump" the wires from the headlight to where it conects in the rats nest. And I mean get the wire right up to where it is soldered to the back of the light. If that works then you have not only found the problem (a bad wire, or conection), but you just about fixed it as well.

Goodluck Bro. And keep me posted. If all else failes, we can try to work this thing backwards.

[GearJammer]

Thanx again, "screamineagle"...

I understand what you're saying about the tumblers, but will probably just leave it be for now. The worry about losing the key has been handled & the downtime of taking the switch to a locksmith (plus the expen$e, LOL!) somewhat play into that decision :wink:

Keeping in mind that I won't be attacking this thing again until the weather warms up, will refer back to your post or even print it out for future reference. The ignition switch will definitely get pulled & cleaned, if for no other reason than it no doubt simply needs to be done, as you've mentioned.

My landlord (also electrically inclined as yourself) told me to open up the headlight & check things out, which I did. All connections looked sound & cleaner than the control housings did. Sprayed them with electrical contact cleaner while in there of course & put it back together.

Another thing that I just remembered.....major "DOH!", LOL!...is that when I rolled the Rebel into the shop to remove the tank & rear fender for paint, as soon as I got the bike inside, it tipped & dropped on it's right side. No visible damage to the bike at all, but there's a more than good chance that it jostled a wire or a connection. The headlight had been working fine up until that point. It was after doing the paint that I discovered the intermittent headlight problem. At first, I'd been thrown off track due to having modified the taillight & altering that wiring & had totally spaced the possible factor of having dropped the bike! Hmmm....the plot thickens, LOL!

So I should place a jumper directly from back of headlight bulb/lamp to it's connection in the rat's nest/junction box ? Gotcha & will do. This would by-pass both control housings & the ignition switch & narrow down the list of possibilites, right ? Cool! I truly appreciate the input & will keep you posted when I get to it. Actually have a jumper wire already made up, so if I get un-lazy here, might be checking this out sooner than Springtime :wink:

[screamineagle]

Hey Jammer, no problem. As always, glad to help.

Just a mention on the side of the locksmiths. Give a few of them a call. Tell them that you will be bringing the part in to them so they don't have to come to you in there funny looking truck...LOL. You might be suprised at the price they tell you. Of course it's all about what it's worth to you.

WHAT!?? You droped the bike !!!??? :o Shame on you ... LOL . :oops:

That does support something I was thinking about lastnight though. After posting my last post I did just as I said I would and checked the part schmatic for an '86 450. It seems that you have a halogen insert type of bulb. Simular to what is used in most cars now a days (wish I had that for my 250). As such I'm woundering if you jard the bulb loose. What I mean is that in some cases the bulb uses the metal locking flang as a ground. If that sucker is loose, then that will cause the problems you discribe.

All in all if your not having problems with any other lights, it sounds like your problem is confined to your headlight circuit and nothing else. Start at the light. Check everything that is conected to it (wires, conections, conectors, ect.). Go backwards from there till you reach the source of power (ie. the battery). Wiggle every peice of wire, every conection. Keep the light on while your doing this. If you hit a spot that your light goes out, you found your problem.

Now as far as using contact cleaner to clean everything.
Contact cleaner is very good to use for getting grease and corrosion off, but sometime that's not enough.
On copper parts (such as Honda used fo the contacts on these bikes) oxadaiton is the enemy. As you have seen from my posts, I soak most of my contacts in the cleaner. That still didn't take the oxadation off of them. I had to go over them with sandpaper or a nail file to get them back to the copper color they are suppose to be.
So in a nut shell, what I'm trying to get across here, is that even if your contacts look good, and you hit them with contact cleaner, they may still be a problem. Make sure the contacts are clean.

And one more thing. You stated the you cleaned the contacts. Did you put any contact grease on them? If not, do it. All this hard work to find, and solve this problem would be a pain if it only lasts one season. The grease is the best thing you can use to keep the contacts from getting corroded and oxadised. Besides, it's cheep insurance. That little "pill pack" you get from the counter of the auto parts store is more then enough to do every contact on the bike, and it will only set you back $.99. Heck, I'll send you one if need be...LOL.
I use to be the guy that just cleaned things and slaped them back together. Now, after doing these switches, if I replace a lightbulb on the bike, and can't find the contact grease, I'm in the car on my way to the parts store for more.

[GearJammer]

"WHAT!?? You droped the bike !!!??? Shame on you ... LOL .".....ROTFLMAO!!!! Yep, sure did. This 450 is definitely on the top-heavy side & I'm actually surprised I haven't dropped it more trying to jockey it around while standing next to it :wink:

Your continued insights are much appreciated here & it's obvious that you're really into this stuff. As you've noted thru your researching the schematic, it does have a halogen bulb headlight (more on that later in the post) & today as we were running errands, was thinking about the possibility of having a loose ground after dropping the bike. You've mentioned the same possibility & will have to print these out & then go thru the checklist when I tackle this again.

Yes, all other lights are fine, so it may well be confined in the headlight bucket/shell. Had wiggled the various wiring harnesses a number of times without any changes, which again could indicate that the problem is inside the headlight shell & not affected by wiggling the outside wiring.

Good points that you've made in regards to the contact cleaner & contact grease. Admittedly, I didn't use any contact grease, but everything in the control housings are working now & will keep the contact grease in mind as a future maintainence gig. I always keep a few tubes of dielectric grease around for the spark plugs/spark plug boots. Pretty standard routine of mine is after pulling spark plugs, the spark plug threads get a fresh coating of anti-seize compound before re-installation. Then the spark plug ends get a fresh coating of dielectric grease before putting the spark plug boots back on.

Back to the headlight: Intermittent problem yet to be found & resolved, but WILL be :) ...The 450 has the halogen bulb headlight as well as TWO 1157 bulbs in the stock taillight/brakelight housing. My theory is that Honda designed it this way for brighter illumination both front & rear. Had wondered if when doing the taillight mod, which meant using only ONE 1157 bulb, if that was going to be a problem. Thankfully, it hasn't been. Now, in the manual, it says for the headlight something to the effect of "Do not replace the headlight with another headlight of either higher or lower than stock rating. A higher rated bulb will be dimmer, a lower rated bulb will burn out quicker." Do you think this info in the manual is gospel or is it a ploy by Honda to try to sell "their" headlight replacements ? What I'm getting at is this...wouldn't any standard or aftermarket motorcycle headlight theoretically work just fine if one chose to do so ? Just as the taillight/brakelight circuit wasn't adversely affected when going down to a single bulb rather than keeping two bulbs, wouldn't the headlight wiring simply draw what juice was needed to power it & not more ? I can see where a higher rated bulb might be a problem for the minimum output electrical system in general on these Rebels, but if I were to swap out the halogen for an old Bates style chopper headlight with a lesser rated bulb, wouldn't it work O.K. ? (This is more of a "what if" question for a possible swap-out in future if I decide to go with something more economical, as I use Wagner auto headlight replacments on the chopped Trumpet headlight)

Once again, your help has been & continues to be much appreciated! :D

[screamineagle]

Ok GJ, let me see if I can tackle this one. Just remember that I by no means am an electrical expert. I still get confused with watts, ohms, and amps as far as what they do.

I beleve that wattage is how much power the appliance pulls. As for the bulb in your bike, it pulls (according to what I'm reading on BB's site) 55 watts on low beam, and 60 watts on high.
Just remember about useing household light bulbs. The higher the watts, the brighter the bulb, but the more power they are going to pull.
Now as for the warning from honda. They might be thinking about the wireing for the light. It might not be reated to handle more then 60 watts. In other words, you try to put (or pull) more then that through it you might heat the wireing up.
Now as far as using a lower watt bulb. I don't think there would be any problem except safty. Being seen and such.

Now, one question. Why would you not want to replace the bulb with the same rated bulb? Bike Bandit has them for only $6.60 which is cheep. Figguring that a 9004 bulb, which I beleve is a hi/low beam hologen that is used on most cars now a days, from Advance Auto Parts is $7.97.

The bulb that honda uses is a Stanley bulb. (What? You thought Honda made their own bulbs?)
It should have the Stanley part number stamped somewhere on it. Take that number and see if your parts guys (or gals) can cross referance it to something that they can get.
If they can't, try NAPA. They have their hands in everything from big rigs to lawn mowers, and their nation wide. I know. I worked for them for 3 years as a parts guy. Beleve me, I've looked up some crazy shi......ok I'll keep it clean.....stuff.

*EDIT*

Just did some checking on Sylvania's website :idea: . Check this out.

http://www.sylvania.com/cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=61&EXTRA_ARG=FILTERNAME%3D%2540URL%00%26FILTERVALUE%3 Dwww%252Esylvania%252Ecom&host_id=42&page_id=460032&query=9004&hiword=9004+

Look at the first bulb. That looks a heck of alot like the one that goes in your light. Might be worth checking into.

*Now back to my regularly rambling...LOL*


Buy everything that you've been telling me I think that your going to find that the problem is going to be the conection there in the bucket. Even though the contacts on the back of the bulb may look good, they may be loose and not making good contact with the blade on the bulb. It's either that or what I told you earler with the ground. That's going to be the best place to start anyway. When you start looking into it.

And yet again, always glad to help as much as I can.

[GearJammer]

O.K....can see that we're on the same page as far as a higher rated bulb possibly causing problems, but a lower rated bulb might be fine to go with.

Thanx for the link & the additional input. Not having had to change out the stock headlight as yet, wasn't aware that it was made by Stanley & REALLY didn't know that the prices were so inexpensive, LOL! The prices you quoted were definitely in the same range as the lesser rated Wagners that I use on the chopper (a little over $6 or thereabouts), so at the very similar prices, I absolutely agree with you about sticking with the stock rated bulbs with their enhanced illumination. (But I'll bet that if one ordered the replacement from a Honda dealership, the price would be about 4 times as much as buying them elsewhere, LMAO!)

Agreed. Am leaning more & more towards the problem being inside the headlight shell & a loose ground could definitely cause the intermittency without actually toasting the bulb itself, as could a loose connector which you've also pointed out. Kinda have a feeling that once I get back after this, it's going to turn out to be fairly easy to find & remedy (time will tell), but also have no complaint about having tried to chase it down thru the various other possibilities as those other areas needed attention anyways & it gave me a chance to learn more about this bike in general. It's all good.... :lol:

[cTc]

Sounds like everyone is able to improve on the state of their machine.

Those rebuild instructions are something else. Nice work.

[screamineagle]

Thanks for the complament CTC. I wounder if I could get a job writing for Clymers? ...LOL.
Of course this is something they didn't cover in their manual. And besides, there are alot of folks that wouldn't think of suspecting the switches when trying to track down an electrical problem. Just wanted to give them an idea of what to look for and how to fix it.

[GearJammer]

In total agreement with CTC. Your Tech info here is one of the best installments I've ever seen. It goes much deeper than any manual would dare to go, LOL! Who knows ? Maybe you could negotiate a deal with Clymer's for a supplemental inclusion in their regular manual ?

[cTc]

At a modist wage for time :lol: not likely they'd ever pay someone there to do such a job