Rebel 450 won't start in morning

[davidw]

Hi all, new to the forum and as of this summer new to owning a Rebel.

I've been riding over the course of the summer after work and just this week started riding my rebel to work. What I've found is every morning when I go out to start it the bike will run for about a minute and then die. I crank it over and it will run for a few seconds and die again. I'll do this a dozen times over the course of 15-20 minutes and it will finally start and run. Then after sitting at work all day I go out, it starts right up, and drives home again without any stalling. It's been around 70-75 degrees in the AM and 80's when I go home after work, but I have a hard time believing that 5-10 degrees could make a difference. Any ideas out there before I take it to a shop?

[GearJammer]

Welcome aboard davidw..........At first it sounded like a dirty pilot jet or jets, but then you mention that the bike seems O.K. later, so I'm less likely to think carbueration (tho' it's still a possibility) Assuming the fuel's fresh......idle set to around 1200 rpm + or - 100 rpm ? Any excessive condensation there in the morning ? Are you using the choke in the morning ? Choke adjusted properly ? When she finally catches & runs for the rest of the day, does the bike seem to be performing well.....seem to be tuned fairly decently ?

Fuel & electrical problems oftentimes mask themselves one for the other.

After first buying this '86 450, there were occasional incidents of what seemed like fuel starvatoin, then catch again........there was unexplained stalling incidents where the bike just died as if the key had been turned off......it ran me ragged for months, trying different things, tho' the erratic symptoms continued.

It finally gave it up entirely to where it would do exactly as you're describing......fire up & die.........but the difference in my case was that it simply wouldn't catch & run longer than maybe 15 seconds. Turned out to be a bad CDI & in retrospect, I realize that the CDI had been going south from day one & just got progressively worse until it failed completely.

Is your battery fresh & charged up to snuff ? It might be losing charge overnight, then once running, it may be taking in enough charge to get you thru the day.

Might be too early to tell, but after the numerous experiences in frustration that didn't seem to make any sense or have any real pattern, and after installing a new CDI, the bike now runs like a top......so I also wouldn't rule out a CDI that's starting to go bad.

If it ultimately turns out to be the CDI, you can get a replacement from Jack's Rebel Warehouse......www.rebelcatalog.com

Other possible suggestions as to the source of the problem are always welcome ;)

[davidw]

Thank you for the quick reply! Did some digging on other forums and the CDI seems to be the first possibility. Other talk about cleaning out the carbs, which the previous owner mentioned they were rebuilt last year which makes me wonder if the problem existed at that time. It also seems that putting in-line fuel filters is a common theme that folks feel is beneficial. Think I'll start with these two things and go from there. The battery seems to be in good shape. As much cranking as I've done it surprises me it isn't dead already!

Do you know approximately what the CDI will cost? And is it something a guy familiar with wrenching can do on their own?

david

[GearJammer]

No telling if the prob existed for the previous owner....he may have cleaned the carbs trying to eliminate the cause or maybe they simply needed cleaning at that time...unknown to us.

If the bike runs fine during the day other than at the initial start in the morning, I'd be guessing that the carbs are probably O.K.

An in-line fuel filter is easy to install, inexpensive & a definite plus to have.

I'd hate to see you buy a new CDI if it isn't needed as they cost roughly $100, but you could always call Jack (phone number on his website) & ask for his experienced opinion as well. He's good people!

If you have to install a new CDI, it's a simple plug-in....piece o' cake ;)

[b4v4]

I had a V45 do this for a few years before I figured out that it had a small pinhole leak downstream of the petcock. Overnight, the gas would slowly drain out of the line between the petcock and the carbs. Because the petcock is vacuum actuated, it shuts off when you shut off the bike. So as the downstream line drained out, it would get a sizeable bubble between the petcock and the carb. The bike would start in the morning because it still had gas in the floatbowl, but when that ran out, the bike would die till the next gas hit the bowl. Then it ran fine all day, even with starting and stopping.
So I would make sure you don't have any leaks on your fuel line, paticularly where it attaches to the nipple on the carb.
Good luck!

[uneasyrider]

Jack's phone # 1-800-240-0393

Howard

[davidw]

Thanks for the replies!

Since posting this it has actually started acting up anytime during the day. Spoke with Jack and based on some things he mentioned I am inclined to think it is the CDI going out. Thus, one is in the mail! I do plan on pulling the tank, checking/replacing all fuel and vacuum lines, tuning the carb as per the manual I purchased. I don't mind a little preventative mantanence nor putting a couple hundred in a bike I only paid $700 for. Besides, I LOVE riding this Rebel!

Thanks again.

david

[GearJammer]

Jack is the Man, never a doubt about that ;)

And thanx for the up-date, David......that increasing intermittency sure does sound like the CDI. Believe me, once you've gotten the new one installed, it'll be like a new bike! This one hasn't missed a friggin' beat since replacing the bad CDI with one from Jack's....

Ride Safe....

[b4v4]

Hey, Gearjammer, Is this a common thing on these 450's? I haven't been into my valves, yet, but this one ran kinda funky on the way home. Previous owner told me it'll run great once I replace the air filter. I thought that sounded kinda weird (as was the dude I bought it from). Started fine at the guy's place, and I took off down the road. About 2 miles down the road, it started feeling like it was petering out on one cylinder. Didn't sound like it, just felt like it. Then, from time to time, it would come alive again and run great. Just for s&g I stuck a new air filter in it, but I have the bike in a million pieces right now, so I can't test it. I'm gonna do the valve adjust while it's apart, but I don't see anything in my Clymer book about syncing the carbs. Should this be done? I can't see any ports on the intake where my vacuum gauges would hook up, either.

[GearJammer]

"Hey, Gearjammer, Is this a common thing on these 450's?".....


Absolutely, Brother! Awhile back there were about 7 of us from the 2 different boards struggling with bad CDI's. I remember thinking at the time that maybe roughly 20 yrs. was about it for a CDI as they were going out at about the same time. Also figure that with the new CDI, there's another 20 yrs. of good ridin' left in the bike! LOL! The symptom you described with the intermittent cutting out of one cylinder & then it kicking back in was DEFINITELY another one of the symptoms mine experienced. That's all gone now with the new CDI.

With 3 running bikes, I've only probably put maybe 5k on this 450 Reb.....haven't had to adjust the valves or deal with the carbs at all. Snorey did a complete teardown & cleaning of his carbs & his info should be on the boards somewhere or hopefully he'll see this & offer you some info. From skimming the manuals some time ago, I'm pretty sure that the carbs can be sunk by an adjuster that actuates both carbs.......can't remember the procedure exactly, but I think it was a matter of setting one carb to spec & then using the adjuster mechanism to duplicate the setting for the other carb.....made sense if I'm remember this correctly.....LMAO!...and a LOT easier than the traditional way of carb syncing.

[b4v4]

Where did you get your CDI? Honda wants about 85 bones for it.

[GearJammer]

Got mine from Jack's www.rebelcatalog.com

Jack's Phone# (courtesy of Howard/UneasyRider) : 1-800-240-0393

Roughly about $100 w/S&H.

Interesting that the Honda stealership even has one. I tried to score one locally for convenience sake & they didn't have one. They used their Nationwide Honda Stealership search & still couldn't find one.

The way the parts guy at the local Honda place explained it to me was that after 15 yrs., all replacement parts for any particular model stops being manufactured. Whatever's left on any dealer shelves would essentially be it. With their locator service, if any dealer in the country has a discontinued part on their shelf & a customer from another dealer needs that part, they're supposed to ship it to the dealer for that customer. I dunno....their search back then came up with zip......

[davidw]

Received the CDI from Jack last Wednesday, installed it that night, and my Rebel has started and ran flawlessly every since. Thanks again for the replies!

[GearJammer]

Thanx for the up-date, David! Life is good now, eh ? ;)

Ride Safe...